Texas Department of Transportation Commission Meeting

Commission Room
Dewitt C. Greer Building
125 East 11th Street
Austin, Texas 78701-2483

9:00 a.m. Thursday, June 27, 2002

COMMISSION MEMBERS:

JOHN W. JOHNSON, Chairman
ROBERT L. NICHOLS
RIC WILLIAMSON

STAFF:

MICHAEL W. BEHRENS, Executive Director
RICHARD MONROE, General Counsel
HELEN HAVELKA, Executive Assistant to the Deputy Executive Director

PROCEEDINGS

MR. JOHNSON: Good morning. It is 9:15 a.m. and I would like to call this meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission to order. Welcome to our June meeting; it's a pleasure to have you here today.

Please note for the record that public notice of this meeting, containing all items of the agenda, was filed with the Office of the Secretary of State at 8:07 a.m. on June 19, 2002.

I traditionally ask my fellow commissioners if they have any comments that they would like to make at this time, so Robert?

MR. NICHOLS: Sure. First of all, I'd like to welcome everybody here and we very much appreciate the time and trouble you've taken to be here to listen to some of the exciting things we're going to be talking about today and to make presentations from your communities as well. We know these presentations which will come a little bit in the early end of this are very important to your communities and we hope that you feel welcome and comfortable. We look forward to your comments, and with that, I'll just pass it on.

MR. JOHNSON: Ric?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I echo Mr. Nichols comments completely, and I would go out of the way, Mr. Chairman -- as I'm sure we will again later in the day -- to acknowledge once again to Mr. Nichols how much I appreciate all of the time that you spent in the last month on State Highway 130 and the bond and indenture process. The chairman and I, I think, are deeply grateful for all the time you spent working on that, we appreciate it very much.

MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Well said.

We're going to go a little bit out of our posted agenda order because we believe that there's an item of great statewide significance on the agenda and we wanted to present that first. I hope our delegations will bear with us. After we've had item 7(a) dealing with the Trans Texas Corridor which will be presented by Steve Simmons, we will have a brief recess so that our first delegation can get set up and the first delegation, I believe, is from Center; and then we have the fine people from Temple will be delegation two, and after each delegation we'll have a brief recess so those that need to get back home can do so; and then our third delegation from Anderson County will get set up; and then after that we'll have a brief recess and then go into the normal portion of our meeting.

So I hope that everybody understands the change in the agenda order and will bear with us, but we feel that this is an extremely important part of the agenda and has extreme statewide significance, so we're going to start with item 7(a) dealing with the Trans Texas Corridor, and for that Steve Simmons, if you would come forward. Thank you.

MR. SIMMONS: Good morning, commissioners, Mr. Behrens. For the record, my name is Steve Simmons and I'm the deputy executive director of the department.

Texas has long been seen as the crossroads of North America and this has never been more accurate than now as trade between North and South America continues to grow. Most goods and commodities coming into the United States from Mexico or further south cross the Texas border and move north, sometimes all the way to Canada. The reverse is true of exports; in fact, 79 percent of all U.S. to Mexico trade passes through Texas ports of entry. Under NAFTA, this international traffic will only increase. A large percentage of the nation's cross-continent traffic also passes through Texas interacting with the transportation needs of the 21 million residents of Texas.

Texas is at a crossroads. Earlier this year, Governor Perry announced his vision to improve transportation by combining highways, rail and utilities into a corridor across Texas. At that time Governor Perry instructed TxDOT to report on what needed to be done to construct the Trans Texas Corridor. Our charge was to identify action items, public involvement opportunities, environmental studies, financing options, public-private partnerships, and an implementation strategy. I'm here today to present the study and the resulting action plan.

The Trans Texas Corridor is the largest engineering project ever proposed for Texas; it is a world-class concept. This is not the first time Texas has started with a vision and transformed it into a useful reality. Our capital is a monument of state-of-the-art 19th century engineering and innovative financing; the state traded 3 million acres of land to pay for the building. However, the best example of turning a vision into reality is our interstate highway system. First envisioned in 1939, work was expedited after World War II because of its importance to national defense. Within three years the routes had been selected. A Texan, the late Frank Turner, played a key role in the planning process and is considered the father of the interstate highway system.

Construction began after President Eisenhower signed a law creating the National Highway Fund. Within 14 years Texas had completed 3,234 miles of network of utility, multi-lane highways connecting our major cities. The similarity between Texas' portion of the interstate system and the Trans Texas Corridor ends there. The interstate system was nationwide, primarily funded with federal dollars, and while other states are looking to the future, no other state has proposed such an ambitious and visionary project as the Trans Texas Corridor.

The Trans Texas Corridor sounds futuristic, and it is, yet the proposed interstate highway system seemed ahead of its time many years ago and now it's hard to imagine life without these roadways. Like the interstate system, this new vision is achievable. In 2001 legislators and voters approved new financial tools to help Texas meet its transportation needs. The Texas Mobility Fund, along with legislation enabling regional mobility authorities and toll equity, will help TxDOT fund improvements to the existing transportation system. Additionally, these tools can help pay for the Trans Texas Corridor.

In studying ways to implement this corridor, TxDOT established seven committees to review, plan and recommend strategies. At your request, the best and brightest served on these committees which included our division directors and district engineers. This was a statewide effort with staff from 16 of our 25 districts working on this report.

These seven committees and the appointed chairs were: Finance, James Bass -- and if they are here, I'd ask that they stand -- Design, Ken Bohuslav; Right of Way, John Campbell; Environmental, Dianna Noble; Rail and Utilities, Wayne Dennis; Toll, Phil Russell; Logical Routes, Jim Randall. In addition, two offices acting in an advisory role are the Legislative Affairs Office headed by Coby Chase, and the Public Information Office headed by Randall Dillard.

Our transportation partners at the Texas Railroad Commission, Texas Parks and Wildlife, General Land Office, Texas School Land Board, Federal Highway Administration, Environmental Protection Agency, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Agency provided input by attending all the committee meetings. We also asked the three major railroad companies, Union Pacific, Burlington Northern-Santa Fe, and Kansas City Southern for their input in developing the rail portion of the report.

A website was developed to provide information on the progress of the Trans Texas Corridor proposal. This website included schematics, a conceptual map and a list of all contacts between TxDOT and any company or organization that could offer expertise or benefit from the development of this project. The corridor plan garnered attention from representatives in Texas, across the United States and internationally in countries such as Italy, England, and Canada.

We believe the design outlined today improves on the preliminary concept released in January by providing a more efficient and safe corridor design. To refresh your memory and to put the new vision into better context, I'll briefly explain the original corridor design concept.

Six railroad tracks will be the center element of the corridor with a three-lane roadway on either side of the rail. Utility areas would have run on both sides of the roadway making up the outer component of the corridor. The new design provides separate lanes for cars and trucks, four conventional commuter and freight rail, two separate tracks for high-speed passenger rail, and combines utility zones into one area. The benefits of this design include greater safety, easier maintenance, and phased development.

The Trans Texas Corridor report includes recommendations on these issues and an action plan. Let me take a few minutes to go into detail about the report.

Some identified benefits of the corridor include: the faster and safer movement of people and goods; reduction of traffic congestion on our existing roadways; removal of hazardous material routes from our populated areas; improvement of air quality; a safer, more reliable utility transmission system; creation of new markets and jobs; and increased importance of existing communities.

Providing separate highway lanes for trucks and passenger vehicles will: increase safety by improving visibility and reducing stress and fatigue for drivers of both types of vehicles; it will reduce congestion by allowing both types of vehicles to move at their most efficient speed; it will enhance cost effectiveness by minimizing the amount of heavy duty pavement required to provide lanes strong enough for truck traffic; and it will improve air quality by allowing traffic to keep moving.

Successful planning and development of the corridor should include extensive public involvement opportunities so any needed changes can be identified through a more detailed project-specific process of public involvement. Public involvement will allow the public to comment early and often on proposed routes by holding numerous public meetings across the state. They will ensure stakeholders, such as utilities, railroads, metropolitan planning organizations have an opportunity to offer input and comment and they will establish a central place to obtain information. It will maintain a website and produce a newsletter.

The first priority segments were identified using the following considerations: congestion in metropolitan areas; existing hazardous material routes; corridors most likely to generate toll revenue; and those corridors that would provide opportunities for economic development. Using these factors, the first four priority segment corridors we believe should be built parallel I-35/I-37 and the proposed I-69 from Denison to the Rio Grande Valley; I-69 from Laredo to Houston to Texarkana; I-45 from Dallas-Fort Worth area to Houston; and I-10 from El Paso to Orange.

While these four corridors are financially feasible, we recognize the need for additional corridors to complete an efficient transportation system. Building corridors parallel to these highways could allow TxDOT to consider modifications to more than $2 billion in planned statewide mobility projects since it may decrease the amount of right of way necessary or allow us to delay some projects.

Designing the corridor to connect to major cities without going directly through them will: help reduce urban congestion by pulling long-distance vehicles away from the local urban traffic; it will remove the majority of hazardous materials traveling through downtown centers on both rail and road, and it will improve air quality by removing long-distance vehicles from urban traffic.

Connections between the corridor and nearby cities can be accomplished by using the existing highway system. It can be developed by developing interconnections with additional modes of transportation and allowing privately funded franchises or public-private partnerships to provide transportation services.

The report placed a large emphasis on property rights by handling all transactions as a high priority process, by approaching all negotiations with good faith and conducting a single transaction with each property owner, and it is proposed to preserve the corridor for future generations by acquiring property for all components as soon as possible.

In developing the corridor, an extensive environmental review will be conducted to determine ways to avoid and minimize adverse environmental impacts and identify a large scale ecosystem approach to mitigation to compensate for unavoidable impacts.

The 4,000-mile corridor would cost, in our estimate, $31.4 million per centerline mile which does not include right of way and miscellaneous costs, for a total of $125.5 billion. Factoring in right of way at $11.7 billion to $38 billion, and miscellaneous costs, the estimated total cost for the Trans Texas Corridor would range from $145.2 billion to $183.5.

Constructing different aspects of the corridor in phases will allow us to build the heavy-duty truck lanes first and let both passenger vehicles and trucks share them. As traffic volumes increase and additional capacity is needed, separate, less expensive passenger lanes could be added. This could be accomplished without disrupting the existing traffic. It will also allow us to construct freight and/or commuter rail lines first along segments most needed for traffic relief, it will develop high-speed passenger rail to connect the largest population areas as the need grows for travel alternatives, and a delay installing utilities in certain zones until needs occur and are identified.

Toll segments of the corridor could be developed through low-bid contracts for turnpike improvements coordinated by TxDOT, by regional mobility authority initiated low-bid contracts, exclusive development agreements with private sector developers, or a regional toll authority.

In closing, TxDOT has developed an action plan. This portion of the report includes a time line for action starting this August and running through December 2003. This action plan consolidates ideas from other sections of the report and outlines specific TxDOT, congressional and legislative actions needed to make the Trans Texas Corridor a reality. This action plan recommends an extensive public involvement process to allow the public and stakeholders to take part in critical corridor decisions. The Trans Texas Corridor represents the future of transportation in Texas. It will move people and goods faster and safer and will help generate toll revenue needed to expand the state's transportation system.

Building the Trans Texas Corridor will be a monumental job but Texas has a history of accomplishing great things, especially when it comes to transportation. I recommend the Texas Transportation Commission accept the final report and approve the action plan to develop the Trans Texas Corridor.

MR. JOHNSON: Are you available for questions?

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir.

MR. JOHNSON: Steve, that's an excellent report. My impression is that the vision that has been presented by Governor Perry, you alluded to the establishment of the interstate highway system, and my impression at least, is this is the most significant thing since the interstate highway system in terms of surface transportation for this state. And I also want to salute you and your team for being so responsive. I know the Governor requested a quick turnaround on the study and recommendations and I think you've done an exemplary job in leading the team in providing that.

I think Ric asked about questions, and Robert and Ric, if you have any questions, observations, please feel free to make those.

MR. WILLIAMSON: If the Chair will so allow, I'll start with a few and then rest for a moment because I know Mr. Nichols has some questions as well. I want to add to the Chairman's remarks, Steve, with my compliments to the staff, to the stakeholders that participated with us in developing the report. I'm particularly grateful to the urban stakeholders who were caught off guard originally by the Governor's proposal but then quickly adjusted and came to the table and helped us develop a plan that would work.

The Governor did ask us to move quickly and as I have a personal relationship with the Governor, I can speak with him in this regard. Once the Governor decided that this is where we needed to head, he wanted to remove it from the political flow of the state, he wanted it to become policy as opposed to politics, and that was one of the reasons he asked us to move so fast, and we've done an admirable job, Mike Behrens, of putting together a project that will work for the state for the next 50 years and I'm appreciative.

There have been in the last four or five months several logical and important questions put to all of us. I think we've all tried to answer them consistently but this is the appropriate forum to deal with some of the most important. One question we're consistently asked by property owners is how will we get a fair value for our land for such a large piece of land, and if we are separated, if I'm a large ranch in South Texas and the corridor divides my ranch in half, what assurance do I have that I can get back and forth between the two pieces after the corridor is built?

I want to first clarify in the report a paragraph I read so that the public clearly understands that we propose a totally new way of approaching right of way in the state. The report recommends, if I understand it correctly, that Mr. Campbell and the right of way legal team of TxDOT will be authorized to negotiate with any landowner a royalty interest in the corridor as opposed to a flat-out condemnation. Is that correct?

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir, that is correct.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So landowners in Texas for the first time with regard to the corridor, not with regard to our state system, will be offered the option to own a piece of the traffic or utilities or activity that goes across that land forever, if they choose that over a cash payment.

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir, it's one of several options that the property owners will have in regards to the ownership or use of their property.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I think that's a remarkable recommendation and it's entirely consistent with the Governor's viewpoint, and I want you to know that this commissioner fully endorses that as a modern approach to acquiring right of way.

The second question I wanted to direct to you and then I want to think for a moment is this business of dividing people's land. Is it not the case in our plan that we automatically anticipate that where we sever people's property, we will provide in every case access back and forth?

MR. SIMMONS: Without a doubt, yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I want to think for a second. Mr. Nichols?

MR. NICHOLS: Mine are more comments than they are questions.

MR. SIMMONS: Thank you.

(General laughter.)

MR. NICHOLS: The staff has done an outstanding job and the administration in putting this together in a timely, well thought out manner, and my compliments to all of you, first of all.

Since this proposal was made by the Governor, I've had a lot of opportunities to go through the state and talk to people and I've had a lot of questions, but I will say that since I have been on the commission the last five years, this is the most exciting long-term opportunity for the state. The only thing in our state's history that is comparable to this was the interstate program which was conceived of over half a century ago. As great as that was and as much benefit as the state has received from that, commerce, connectivity and those types of things, it is rapidly approaching capacity.

Anyone who travels on the interstates, particularly that go through the urbanized areas of the state and many of our long distance routes, know that it's getting plugged, it's full of trucks -- you don't need a report to tell you that -- and many of our opportunities to expand that system are in conflict with developments that have occurred adjacent to them. In other words, we don't have room. So therefore, to increase the capacity, we have to destroy, in effect, many businesses and developments that are along that route, replace existing -- in other words, destroy overpasses, existing roadways, to move them out to create room for new roadways and so on is such a disruptive process, extremely expensive real estate, and the opportunity to move over to the side in most of these cases and start anew with a new vision I think is going to be tremendous opportunities.

When the interstate was conceived of, it did not conceive of the opportunities of the other forms of transportation for which we have: rail, utilities, and things of those nature. While truck traffic and cars have been on the interstate basically a long distance conceived of nonstop, if you could imagine, for those of you who are here, if the truck traffic and cars still had to travel on the old US highway system that went to every town, hit every red light and every stoplight, we would be incredibly plugged, but the freight train system of our nation is still on those old routes. The old routes developed, the roads went adjacent to them, and our rail system which is still very vital to our state goes through every single town, every one of those crossings, every one of those barriers that goes up and down, and for the opportunity for them to move to a corridor that is open and free and make long distance hauls is incredible. It lends the opportunity also for passenger freight and stuff like that.

But I've also heard, as I've moved around the state, some concern about the property that may be taken or acquired, but independently as each of the electric companies, oil companies, gas companies, telecommunications, as they develop their own easements throughout the state for pipelines and things of that nature, each company individually is forced to go out and deal with thousands of property owners and cross the neighborhoods and backyards and pastures all over this state. It's an incredible crisscross network.

By having a corridor that allows for a piece just for utilities, then these networks and independent companies will be able to come together and work toward these corridors and make long distance transport of all this information and other assets that need to be moved in a much more efficient manner with much less disruption to the environment and much more efficiently for all of the citizens involved.

Anyway, those are the comments, I really didn't have any questions, but I will tell you it is very exciting and obviously we're very supportive of it.

MR. SIMMONS: Thank you, Commissioner.

MR. JOHNSON: Ric?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes, I have a few, and perhaps the questions are really more in the nature of comments to be sure that I understand and that the multitude of stakeholders in the audience today understand. One question that's been brought up repeatedly by senators and House members, to what extent will the revenue that TxDOT has to invest in the corridor stop or slow down our known existing plans for the state highway system. And so I would just ask you by way of confirmation, right now it appears to us that we can approach this holding intact all of our known UTP plans for every city and county, for every community in the state, the corridor will not disrupt any known approved project. Is that correct?

MR. SIMMONS: That is correct.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And where it will displace or complement a future project that's not yet approved, we will have enough extensive public involvement that any fears that Senator Staples, for example, might have about the corridor as it moves through East Texas replacing perhaps a renovation that he hopes to have in his district, we'll be able to match those together where the community will feel like in the end they have a better product than they would have had had the corridor not come through.

MR. SIMMONS: I think that's the best way to put it, that it's going to supplement the existing system and provide for an upgrade in those certain areas.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And so while we anticipate that private sector partners out there in the world who we don't know specifically who they are but we know generally would be interested in these projects, we can anticipate that they will be making proposals fairly quickly. The truth is this is a 50-year plan with an emphasis on the first ten years to get moving and to focus on the primary corridors as quickly as possible to relieve congestion and move hazardous material out of our current urbanized areas.

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Now a couple more questions in that regard, Steve. I want to use as an example one of the existing private toll roads in our state. The Camino Colombia west of Laredo has been the subject of some discussion by this department over the last year or so with regard to its viability and whether or not it has value to us. We've not, that I know of, Chairman, done anything official, written a report, done an investigation, but we know the toll road is there and we know it might be available to us. Is there anything in the proposal that would prevent us -- that being TxDOT -- from deciding that a high speed toll corridor from the Camino directly to the Port of Corpus Christi and on to the Port of Houston would be a good thing, is there anything that would prevent us from pursuing that ourselves?

MR. SIMMONS: None that I'm aware of, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So we are in position with the current law to either accept a proposal from private sector participants or from Webb County and Laredo and Corpus Christi and Nueces County and Harris County and the Harris County Toll Authority, we could accept a proposal from them to connect to the Camino or buy the Camino and take that toll road to Corpus Christi and Houston immediately?

MR. SIMMONS: As I think the report is going to say, we're open for business and we'll accept any idea that comes forward to us.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So that the public is aware, we anticipate that the private sector will start this ball, but the truth is where our staff identifies high revenue corridors that would help the state and generate toll revenue immediately, we could move on those corridors ourselves.

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Now, with regard to the private sector, and specifically with regard to the primary routes, I think it's important, again for Senator Staples and Senator Duncan, for Senator Shapleigh, for Senator Ogden and those who represent parts of the state not on the primary routes, to understand that our thought process is this system will be laid down to generate revenue forever with the thought in mind that we cannot reach the less-developed parts of the state until we have the revenue to pay for those corridors, but the reality is we don't have the revenue in the current system to build to those parts of the state now and we see no opportunity to ever have the revenue to build industrial and utility corridors to every corner of the state in the existing scenario.

So our belief is the tolled system, concentrating on the four primary routes first, is the beginning of generating the cash flow quicker and for sure to build into my old hometown in Abilene and Nacogdoches and Amarillo and Lubbock and Midland and San Angelo and Del Rio and all of the other great communities in the state that are also open for business. This is our belief that this is the best and fastest way to get there.

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And it's not because we favor Dallas and Houston and San Antonio over any other part of the state, the truth is there are more people driving those routes so the opportunity to generate revenue to pay for the rest of the system is the greatest there.

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: My last question would be this business of dealing with the private sector is always sensitive. We've just finished our sort of first experience with the public-private partnership, although the winners of the State Highway 130 contract are not going to own any of that toll, it was our first experience with a sort of turnkey approach to construction, and we learned during that process that we really can get a road built faster if we do it this way.

We've also learned something else in this process that I suspect we'll talk about later on in the meeting, Mr. Nichols, and that is we've learned what the true cost of building and maintaining a road in Texas is today, and we know that because we know what it's going to take per toll to pay for that road, and I think it probably was eye-opening for some people this morning to pick up their Austin American Statesman and realize it's going to cost six bucks to go from Georgetown to Seguin. But the reality -- and I'm asking this in the form of a question -- the reality is if the state were a tolled system, that's what we would all be paying to get on pieces of 35- and 40- and 50-mile roads because that is what it costs to build and maintain roads in Texas today.

MR. SIMMONS: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, I think all of the most important questions to me are answered, Mr. Chairman, and I'm standing by until you're ready for something.

MR. JOHNSON: The primary corridors that you mentioned which would be developed first touch, I believe, at least 80 to 90 percent of the state's population. Most of that population dwell in our great urban areas and our wonderful cities. How can the residents of those communities -- what is the concept of dealing with the development of the corridors? I mean, the benefits are clear and you mentioned those: mobility will be improved, the environment will be improved, the movement of hazardous materials will become a great deal safer and will improve, so the benefits are clear. But how do the residents of our cities, what is the concept that they will be looking for towards the development of the corridors and how will it affect the people who live in the great cities of this state?

MR. SIMMONS: We definitely think it's going to be an improvement because of the items you specifically mentioned: the safety, the air quality, the quality of living. There will be multi-modal centers built outside that will connect the Trans Texas Corridor to the inner cities and be able to get the freight and goods back into the city. The access points along the corridor will be very limited so that we prevent the urban sprawl that comes with that type of development. But I think the safety and the air quality and the lifestyle improvements that will come about from the Trans Texas Corridor will benefit these cities immensely and allow them to grow and prosper on their own.

MR. JOHNSON: Great. Robert, did you have anything else?

MR. NICHOLS: No.

MR. JOHNSON: Ric?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Chairman, I commend the commission, the staff and the participants, and I so move we adopt.

MR. NICHOLS: I second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries. Steve, thank you for a well-done presentation.

MR. SIMMONS: Thank you, commissioners.

(Applause.)

MR. SIMMONS: I might add that there are summaries of the report, the overview, the executive summary and the action plan will be available at our public information office today and the whole report will be placed on the website this afternoon, so that will be available.

I also want to recognize two individuals that helped tremendously to put this report together and that's Mike Cox -- is he still here? Mike joined the department late December, came on board and immediately got enrolled to help put this report together, and he's still here. And then Buddy Allison who also helped put it together, and Buddy is here also.

So I want to thank those two individuals specifically.

MR. JOHNSON: Mike?

MR. BEHRENS: Mr. Chairman, if I could, I just want to publicly thank Steve for all his work and efforts on this project. He was the leader of all those committees he spoke of and he's done a yeoman's job.

MR. SIMMONS: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Good job.

MR. JOHNSON: We will take a brief recess so that our good friends from Center and Shelby County can get set up, and we will reconvene shortly with the first of our delegations. Thank you.

CITY OF CENTER AND SHELBY COUNTY

(Sen. Todd Staples, Mayor John Dean Windham, Rep. Wayne Christian)

MR. JOHNSON: I would like to thank everyone for their indulgence in terms of presenting, as I mentioned, what obviously has great statewide ramifications and the sacrifice of your time and inconvenience to those of you who are pressed for time, but we really believe what we've adopted today has great significance statewide and hopefully you learned more about it if you weren't already an expert on the Trans Texas Corridor.

Our first item on the agenda is to welcome the good people from Center, Texas, and Shelby County, our first delegation. We're delighted that you're here. I understand that Mayor Windham is going to lead the delegation, but before we do that, I know Senator Todd Staples has a meeting to get to, and so Senator Staples, if you would come forward and address the commission, we'd be delighted.

SEN. STAPLES: Thank you very much, Chairman Johnson. It's great to be here with you today, Commissioner Nichols, Commissioner Williamson, Director Behrens. It's kind of a historic day for us to be here to be able to witness the laying out of this corridor, and I compliment you and TxDOT and Governor Perry for your vision, and it's exciting for my part of Texas and our delegations, both the Center and Shelby County and the Anderson County delegation, to be part of it.

And Commissioner Williamson, we understand that it is going to take some priority funding to get some of this up and running and we understand that it has to be a win-win solution for all of Texas, and I think I can speak for my district and say we are fully supportive of the commission's efforts and Governor Perry's efforts to build the future, and that's what you're doing today and we look forward to partnering with you in getting that done.

I've been doing my best to stay out of Austin and in East Texas and that's where I've seen most of you lately is in East Texas, and I want to say thank you for getting out into the state, visiting with the communities, talking about their priorities because it does mean a lot to us. I've been staying out because all my friends tell me we're going to need an extra suitcase this next session, we'll be here longer than the 140 days, and so I'm not looking very forward to that, but we will deal with that when we do get there.

We're excited about the upcoming session and the partnership that we're going to have with TxDOT, the initiative, the vision that you're bringing, and I'm excited about the future of Texas and I appreciate what you're doing.

It is an honor to be here today to represent two East Texas communities, despite of what the circuit court in California says, we still consider it God's country in East Texas.

(General laughter and applause.)

SEN. STAPLES: I imagine it will be that way for a number of years and we invite all of Texas out there.

They're going to present you with some really good facts and reasons and statistics and rationale why you should support their projects today, and I think they're very solution-oriented in what they'll be bringing to you. One thing that they won't be sharing with you and won't be duplicating, since September 11 I've noticed, we've all noticed, a tremendous slowdown in travel across the nation. I've got several friends in the real estate business -- I try to practice in that every once in a while to supplement my high-paying state job -- the brokers that I've been involved with have noticed an up-tick in sales of rural land tracts, lakes, recreational properties, and most of them have a consensus that that's where a big emphasis is going to be rather than traveling across the nation to a resort spot or traveling out of our country, there's going to be a great deal of interest and involvement.

And when you look at East Texas and the projects that will be before you today, you'll be serving not only the people of East Texas but the people of Houston and the Dallas-Fort Worth area and all across the state as they take advantage of the beautiful natural resources.

The first group before you today is the City of Center and Shelby County with a loop extension project. This is something that's about a ten-year planning process that they've been asking the department to be able to participate in. The City of Center, I want to tell you, and Shelby County understand partnerships; they understand cooperation. They have worked with this agency on a number of projects. You've been very supportive on roads to their schools. This community understands what it means to invest back in your community, they have one of the best scholarship programs that is funded locally for their kids that I've seen. They understand how important that is.

They also understand how important transportation is and implementing this next phase of the loop is vitally important. There are numerous businesses that will benefit the citizens because that traffic congestion will be able to be solved if this loop extension is approved, and they're not coming up here empty-handed, they're coming up here with money on the table of their money because they understand the value of stretching state dollars.

I would ask your favorable consideration because, you know, in East Texas we like to argue about a lot of things but this is one instance where government, private businesses, the schools and community groups are all in agreement on and I think you'll find that a very worthwhile project.

The Anderson County request is to complete Highway 155. You've probably driven on that. It's great four-lane in a lot of areas and then it bottlenecks to a two-lane. This will complete that four-lane connection, that interconnectivity that is the theme word that you use, and you'll be glad to know that the right of way has been acquired for about 20 years, so this is a project that's ripe, and costwise it is something that's very good, and lastly, it will benefit the entire region. You'll have Smith County folks talking about this Anderson County project today; it truly is a regional project and I would ask that you give favorable consideration to Shelby County and the City of Center and Anderson County's requests today.

Thank you for all you do to make Texas a better place.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Senator.

(Applause.)

MR. JOHNSON: I'm going to jump ship very briefly. Representative Mike Krusee has an appointment and asked if he could briefly say something, then we'll ask Mayor Windham to lead the delegation.

MR. KRUSEE: Thank you. I've asked the chairman for just a brief opportunity to talk about the RMA rules that are on your agenda today. I've spoken with Judge Doerffler and Judge Biscoe and they've both asked me to convey their gratitude to the commission for the cooperative way in which you've worked with us and the product that we've come up with in the RMA rules.

Williamson and Travis are about as different as two counties you can find right next to each other: one is completely Republican, the other is completely Democrat; in ethnicity, in gender, in every way possible. But what you've seen over the last few months is those two counties come together and work in a cooperative way that they have never worked together in history. They had their first ever joint commissioners court meeting at the Capitol between the two courts, and that's all made possible by this RMA law, and more to the point, it's made possible by you three commissioners and by the TxDOT staff, Mike, and I want to thank you for the way that you've worked on this.

I urge you to adopt the rules that are in front of you today and we will endeavor to be the first ones to put an application on your desk. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We appreciate that and appreciate your comments. That's very kind of you.

MR. JOHNSON: Mayor Windham. We're delighted that you're here, welcome.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Thank you, sir. Good morning Chairman Johnson, and Commissioners Nichols and Williamson, and Executive Director Behrens. We appreciate you giving us some of your valuable time to express to you our deep desire to complete a project that's really been going on for a little over 20 years actually.

I'd also like to express my appreciation for our district engineer, Mr. Dennis Cooley, for coming down today.

Dennis, I appreciate your presence here very much.

My name is John Windham, I'm the mayor of Center, and I represent the city and the county in this request. I did want to introduce some folks here just for a minute, won't take long -- I know the clock is running here, isn't it.

Senator Staples you've already seen and visited with; he's here supporting our project. We certainly appreciate his presence. Representative Wayne Christian who I will call on in just a second. Mr. Chris Heckmann with the Governor's Office is here with us; we appreciate his presence very much. And County Judge "Doc" Watson from Shelby County is here. Thank you for coming.

At this point I'd like to call on Representative Christian just to introduce our request.

MR. CHRISTIAN: Thank you, Mayor Windham. It is an honor to be here. Commissioners, I do appreciate the opportunity to be here. Let me clarify one thing. Senator Staples was mentioning that the Senate is suggesting that they're going to be here for a longer time; in the House we run every other year, as Commissioner Williamson is aware. Before election time, I want to assure the voters that we in the House intend to save money, do things diligently, and be through and efficient with a dollar and be out on time. Okay? And the Senate can stay however long they want to, it's fine.

(General laughter.)

MR. CHRISTIAN: We'll work on it. But anyhow, it's good to be here this morning. Appreciate you gentlemen tremendously for your work, and Chairman Johnson, I appreciate you for coming to our area, considering the ideas we have; especially Robert Nichols who has been a great friend to all of us in East Texas. I can remember the time I went to Commissioner Nichols' office and requested some help on county bridges and before long he came back with a plan that I could never have dreamed of but it was nice to have some of the folks from TxDOT come and say, your plan for the bridges was great. And I said, Hey, when you tell it to Robert Nichols, your plan becomes something you never dreamed of here. And he's done a great job for us.

And Commissioner Williamson, of course, served with him in the Texas House, back when I first joined in my freshman year -- I'll be very quick about this -- some of the folks were telling us about the memories they had when they served with Lyndon Johnson and back those years, some of the things that happened, and of course I can say one of my memories of my freshman year was the bet we'd take each day: Could Ric Williamson go out to Katz's at night and two o'clock in the morning and eat the full breakfast like he did every morning out there, and he did win every time, he could do that. So it was a great time and some great gentlemen that you have been to work with and we appreciate you.

Center, Texas, when you look at it, many times people think we're just a small little town, about 5,000 folks in the population, but I think we'll make clear this morning that's not really what's represented in service to the community that Center represents. Center represents an area; the reason it's called Center, it's the center of the county and a lot of people wonder what it is. Our local radio station says the center of the country, of God's universe, the center of the world, but it's the center of the county which services a large population of people, a lot of different independent farmers, loggers, timber growers, different interests we have in a large area.

The area that we're talking about extending the loop and completing it to the different areas services basically our major industry. Two major industries in our area are timber and poultry, and understand this is the area that we're trying to service now that needs the help in rural Texas.

Commissioner Williamson expressed his regrets that the State of Texas will never be able financially to adequately fund transportation to the rural small areas. I want to say that this morning we bring to you, Commissioner Williamson, an opportunity to relieve your conscience and you can help us in rural Texas with this project and go home a happier man.

(General laughter.)

MR. CHRISTIAN: It is something that we need. Understand Center, just to make you reflect, Nacogdoches which is in my district also, is a busy booming little town that we all recognize as doing great things and you've been very good to us in our projects there in Nacogdoches. I want to bring you a fact that you might not be aware of: The timber industry in Nacogdoches and Shelby County are exactly the same in the millions of dollars serviced and transported each year. Also, another fact that you may not consider is the poultry industry, we actually have slightly higher numbers of chickens produced out of Shelby County than Nacogdoches County, 21 million per year is represented there, and we actually exceed Nacogdoches County in that production.

Therefore, I think you're going to find we actually have good statistics behind us, that it's not servicing just a little town of 4- or 5,000, it's an industry and an economy that justifies your consideration for this project and the completion of this loop, and as they'll explain to you today why it directly affects any expansion projects we might be considering from our major industry. In other words, if we don't find things more convenient for Tyson to be able to access its facility and other businesses there in that part of town, future expansion -- which is very possible and very much desired in our rural East Texas area -- may not occur.

I'll give you an example. There was a facility that was nearly $800 million in size that was proposed for East Texas but because it could not meet the state requirements, and we fought with the different environmental groups and the different agencies, that facility is now located in West Virginia. We have an $800 million facility that we lost because we as a state would not step in and give it the support that it needed. I don't want to see that continue in rural Texas.

You're aware and you've been great friends to us in rural Texas. This is a project that will influence the ability of rural Texans in my particular area to continue to have their jobs and to expand their business. if we don't have this, we will not be on the front burner for continued expansion in the industry that provides the income for our families. So I would appreciate your consideration this morning as it's presented, hope that you will take the time to consider it, but most of all, what we're after is your approval and we would appreciate that approval on this project that I believe you'll find is very justified in our community.

Thank you very much and I hope you'll give us your first consideration.

(Applause.)

MAYOR WINDHAM: I do want to express our appreciation to you and to Senator Staples for your support on this project.

Gentlemen, we're seeking $10 million of Strategic Priority Funding for right of way construction for the remaining portion of our Loop 500 around the city of Center. If it's not available, we would request that consideration be given to move this project to Priority II status for the project, allowing for the acquisition of right of way.

This map shows you the city of Center and the surrounding area and the area in green that's highlighted is the proposed extension of Loop 500. A later map in my presentation will show you the industries put on top of that so you can see what we're talking about.

And this project has been ongoing for over 20 years. The initial project was approved and built in the 1980s, funding for the second leg was never approved. In fact, here a minute ago former Senator Bill Haley was our senator at the time that we got the first two legs built on this loop, so he was here this morning, still interested in this project to date, and we appreciate him coming in.

MR. WILLIAMSON: He was an okay senator but he was a great House member.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: He was responsible for the modern education code, Mr. Nichols, Mr. Haley was, almost by himself.

MR. NICHOLS: He was my state senator.

MR. WILLIAMSON: As a House member he was a wonderful, wonderful leader in education.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Thank you, sir.

The planning process for this leg of the loop has been going on for over ten years now. This project is now, with the exception of land acquisition, ready to build. All the environmental stuff has been done and we have a lot of support for this loop. We have major issues to consider but of course safety is one of the biggest issues of all and it is of great concern with us. I'll show you later some of our accident rates around the city which exceed even urban rates for miles traveled because of the congestion and traffic and everything we have.

Efficient transportation, industrial demands, and escalating cost of the project continue to rise each year.

We have a lot of folks here representing the city and the county; we have the City of Center -- if you would stand up as I call out your name -- the City of Center, the county, economic development committee, we have an economic development board, the chamber of commerce, and business and industry. I don't have a head count but for Shelby County we did pretty good, I think. Thank all of you for coming. We do have support; we've worked on this for quite a while.

Let's talk about safety if we can for just a minute. We of course have great concerns for our citizens and traffic safety. The completion of our Loop 500 would allow for the routing of hazardous materials and heavy industrial traffic around high density and pedestrian areas. A lot of people still walk in our country towns, particularly the downtown square. Center is like a wagon wheel, we're the center part, every part comes to that square in Center in the county, so until we had those first two sections of Loop 500 built, the traffic would pile up on the weekends maybe a mile off the square trying to get into town because of all the tremendous truck traffic we have in that little town.

Our school system projects that over 200 students per day will be transported on this new section rather than through the congested downtown area. 200 kids a day, right now they're being carried down the same routes that all this other stuff is.

If you'll look at the Loop 500 accident data, you'll see that the fatalities and accidents per million vehicle miles were high along these routes. Inside this proposed loop there were six fatalities alone, mostly on 96 in town.

Efficiency. Our various local industries project mileage savings if we complete this route. This mileage savings can be estimated from 5 to 15 miles if this section were built. Tyson's big plant in Center is located in the southern part of town and they have to go about 5 to 7 miles out of the way to go north because they can't come through the square anymore. This route would also assist in industrial, hazardous, and through traffic, avoiding Highway 96 through town, and Highway 96 is a built-up area with four controlled intersections -- that's where a lot of the deaths have occurred at those intersections.

The next chart shows how 96 and Highway 7 average accident rates, both inside the proposed loop, compared to state averages for accidents per million. These are compared to both rural and urban areas and you can see both highways are well above the average accident rate, Highway 96 being the red line and Highway 7 being the purple line. So our average accident per mile is much, much higher than urban averages because of all the congestion. We expect that the diversion of traffic, particularly industrial vehicles, will help reduce these rates.

Our average daily trip projections are increasing. The 2006 estimates have been increased within the last year about 14 percent from 5,600 to 6,400 daily trips in Center. This traffic will only increase as Interstate 69 is built somewhere down the road; it's supposed to come through our area. Highway 96 continues to get more and more traffic all the time, and if it could be diverted this route, it would help a lot.

Another bottleneck, if you will, Highway 87 doesn't just serve Center and Shelby County, 87 goes all the way to the coast, and people that live in San Augustine, Sabine and the other counties down below us, if they want to go to Louisiana, to north Louisiana, like Shreveport, they've got to come up 87 because Toledo Bend has them locked unless they go all the way down to Milam and turn and go across the bridge and go to Manning. So we have a lot of folks, coming right up 87, have to come right into town and meet 7.

The next chart will show you the industry that's being served and this is not all of our industry but this is industry that would be affected directly by this loop, it would help us. It's very heavy truck traffic, and we ship internationally from a lot of these plants, Hallmark, General Shelters, Armstrong, Tyson Foods all ship all over the country and so does C&R Refrigeration.

The next chart will show you the proposed extension again and highlighted in yellow are the various industries and how they're strategically located. 2, 3, 4 and 5 have to come to town to get out, and these specific businesses account for over 2,200 employees, so we've got a lot of folks.

The industry usage of this loop extension can be seen by locally generated traffic of over 275 large trucks per day right now going on, and the funny thing is part of it has to go down a farm road to -- well, I'll get that in just a minute. The timber industry, as was mentioned earlier, estimates 31,000 trucks a year generate traffic within Shelby County, 31,000 loads a year within the county. Now, these traffic counts don't include all the commercial traffic or transport of goods for retail distribution like furniture stores and hardware stores, that doesn't include that count, that 275 is just these industries we're talking about right here.

Truck traffic is estimated by TxDOT for this loop to be about 22 percent of the total traffic. Like I say, most of this traffic is traveling extra miles per trip, they're traveling through the downtown area or 96, use city streets to access the highways. Now, here's that example. One of the major routes four of these industries have to use to go north is to come up a farm road into town one block from the square, make a 90 degree turn on a city street that's not that big, travel down this little city street and hit an intersection of Highway 7 which goes in about six different directions and try to get back on 7, then go down to the intersection of 96 where the major intersection is and try to weave back into that traffic where you have Wal-Mart, H.E.B., Eckerd Drug, Best Western, McDonald's, and they have to come through that big section with all those trucks. This would eliminate that. There's been a lot of accidents right there.

Local participation is already pledged here. We've got the county and the commissioners court has already voted to do their share on the right of way; our economic development board has pledged -- this was several years ago, even before Mr. Cooley came on -- pledged $200,000 for TxDOT to use any way they wanted to use it, not to acquire right of way, just to help pay for the project. We also have the possibility of a Federal Demonstration project that Congressman Sandlin -- I visited with him in his office in Washington, D.C., a few weeks ago when I was up there on an I-69 meeting -- saw you in the airport, if you remember that, I was flying back to Houston on Continental -- but Congressman Sandlin said there was money available for these types of projects, and since he's on the Highway Transportation Committee for the federal government, I think we feel encouraged about if we get this approved maybe getting some help from them to lighten the load for TxDOT too. He said something like maybe even $2 million -- that would sure be nice. Don't write that down but we think that might happen.

Construction cost for this project is going to be about $13-1/2 million, and really everything is ready to go once it's approved because it's ready to go to buy the right of way, all the work has been done for this. In 1993 when all the work had been done this project was going to cost $10 million, today is $13-1/2; that's a 30 percent increase over the past ten years, basically a 3 percent annual increase on the cost of building this last section of our loop. So it's costing to not do it.

Gentlemen, we really, really need this project for safety, for industry, economic development -- so many things. We're bottlenecked out there. The Tyson plant involves 1,200 people and when you run that many trucks a day out of their plant and have to go around, and they really are good about taking the long way around but it does cost them a lot of extra money.

I'm actually going to give you some time back after Wayne did all that talking. As an elected official, I realize you have difficult funding decisions to make, you don't have the money, but we're begging for it anyhow. We would like to thank you for your consideration and give this project your real deep thought. We appreciate very much the time. Any questions?

MR. JOHNSON: Robert?

MR. NICHOLS: Yes, sir, I had a couple of questions and then I guess a couple of comments also. Is all of this inside the city limits?

MAYOR WINDHAM: None of it's inside the city limits.

MR. NICHOLS: But it's inside the ETJ? How much of it is inside your extra-territorial?

MAYOR WINDHAM: Just right outside the city limits; it's all within that area you're talking about.

MR. NICHOLS: So I think your extra-territorial jurisdiction goes out one mile?

MAYOR WINDHAM: One mile, yes, sir. That would be most of it, not all of it; most of it would be in that area.

MR. NICHOLS: Now, the county commissioners court, is it represented here today?

MAYOR WINDHAM: Yes, sir, the county judge is here, Judge Watson.

MR. NICHOLS: Judge. Okay, I saw you a while ago. When I was there and we talked about this and laid it out, one of the things that -- there were two things that were impressed upon me that I remember real clearly, and that was that most of the industry there is trying to take trucks north to get to 59 and hit the big arteries and spread out, but to do that, they're having to go back into town, go around that area, and then cut through, so we're generating all that.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Right.

MR. NICHOLS: Plus any of the businesses that are south of you coming through or trying to get to 59 are getting the same thing and the accident rates are high. As you know, or may not know, we do have a shortage of funds and we're only able to fund about a third of the really good projects in the state. Our federal appropriations, in effect, is being cut; the numbers aren't finished yet and we're still trying to be optimistic, but it appears that they're going to be cut about $300 million per year beginning almost immediately, and over a ten-year planning process, that's a $3 billion cut, that's a lot of projects that are going to have to come off the list. And we historically have asked communities to step up with a vested interest, and I was looking at the vesting, what I would refer to as the local contributions, and I realize, as I understand it, your economic development corporation has pledged $200,000 toward this.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: The county is pledging 10 percent of the right of way, is that $100,000?

MAYOR WINDHAM: $75,000 I think is the estimate. $750,000 required to acquire the right of way?

MR. NICHOLS: My notes say a million.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Mine says 750- but you could be right.

JUDGE WATSON: Commissioners, the county is ready to pledge anything to get this through.

MR. NICHOLS: Well, it could get pretty high.

(General laughter.)

JUDGE WATSON: We're talking within 10 percent range.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay. The 10 percent on the right of way, if I'm not mistaken -- and I'll ask the executive director -- in this type of roadway, that is the normal layout for the county's portion.

MR. BEHRENS: Yes.

MR. NICHOLS: That is appreciated but that is a normal course of what's laid out for a county's share of that thing. The city itself does not have any vested extra cash in this thing other than the economic development. I guess what I'm saying is we have a lot of cities and communities and counties in the state that are really stepping up quite a bit to the plate, and I realize Shelby County and Center are not a wealthy area of the state and I recognize that, but we would encourage you or at least I would encourage you, the city and the county to get back -- I'm not talking about today, but get together and see what you might really could step up with some more funds on.

The legislature gave us a tool called the State Infrastructure Bank. I know when I was mayor of a small town, kicking in money in one year just devastated our budget, but if we had an opportunity to spread that out, the legislature gave us the State Infrastructure Bank as a tool just for these situations where we could loan the city or we could loan the county money that you could pay back over time when it actually happens which would be even further out. And take a look at those tools and if they could be utilized, see if there's additional stepping up to the plate that you might consider, and I would encourage you to do that real quick.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Okay, sir. Commissioner, is there a number?

MR. NICHOLS: I don't think it would be appropriate for me to say that but your district engineer, Mr. Cooley, probably has access to what other communities in East Texas have done and maybe other areas of the state, just so that you can get a feel. But when we're asking other communities to step up, many do, it becomes very difficult for us with such a very tight constrained budget to not do the ones where they stepped up a lot higher, so I just want to make sure that you're aware of that. And I think this is a good forum while you've got so many people from your community here because it does not only affect the county and the city but also really a bigger area because of that flow.

With that, I'd just say I appreciate all of you for being here and for such a nice presentation.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Thank you for inviting us.

MR. JOHNSON: Ric, did you have anything?

I had one question, Mr. Mayor, and you mentioned Highway 87 and people traveling eastbound to go to Louisiana on 87.

MAYOR WINDHAM: They're actually coming north on 87 from San Augustine and Sabine County down there if they're going to Shreveport.

MR. JOHNSON: My question is why would anybody want to go to Louisiana.

(General laughter.)

MAYOR WINDHAM: Well, they have those things over there called boats that people go to, and if you go onto those boats, you won't see anything but Texas plates everywhere you are.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, that's those boats of ill repute we hear about.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Exactly. I've been told that, yes, sir; I assume that's correct.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Chairman, you gave me the chance to ask and I was mulling Shelby County and I forgot, I don't want to pass up the opportunity to thank Senator Staples and Representative Christian for both being warriors for the state transportation infrastructure. They both defend the department and help the department, and we don't say thank you to those who don't deserve it when they come through here, but to those that do, we do, and Mr. Christian and Mr. Staples have both been very strong supporters of the state's transportation program.

MAYOR WINDHAM: We'll get our heads back together, Commissioner.

MR. CHRISTIAN: I just wanted to mention one comment on what Commissioner Nichols said, and I agree that when we look at other communities they're able to step forward. One thing that is not really considered is we understand that there is a large influx of minority population into our state that are not able at this time to contribute. Our schools in Shelby County, Texas, especially Center, Texas, is no longer a majority campus of any one race. We have a low income part of the state. We understand in the colonias area that we have to do additional funding even though there may be larger dollars somewhere else that are brought forward.

One statistic that came forward this year I think many are not aware of, the fastest-growing population area for the Hispanic population in the state of Texas, the fastest growing Hispanic population in the past decade after the census was Shelby County, Texas. We have a large number of people that we are accommodating quite well and we welcome and we're educating in the school system, we're accommodating in an area that's already a poor economic area.

So again, as the county seat of Center, I want to remind you -- I'm sure as a former mayor, Mr. Nichols, you understand -- not only are these jobs, the 2,000 that are accommodated there in Center, Texas, from Tenaha, Timpson, Joaquin -- Tenaha, Timpson, Bobo and Blair is the old saying --all these little towns that aren't able really to directly put their dollars in. So I'd appreciate, while we will do -- and you'll find we will get together, this city has always been generous to contribute -- you might kind of give us somewhat of a legitimate weight to the fact that we are the fastest-growing population that we are having to support in that particular area and accommodate them as best we can.

So when we kick in, please consider that as part of the package there, that it's not a rich area when we do come back with a figure that I'm sure we'll be able to help as much as we can and you might kind of consider that when you do that consideration. Thank you very much.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Thank you, sir.

MR. JOHNSON: Does the delegation have anything else?

MAYOR WINDHAM: Do you want to say something? We've still got five minutes.

MR. JOHNSON: Well, I think we stopped the clock.

MAYOR WINDHAM: Oh, they did. Thank you very much.

MR. JOHNSON: As you're aware, we don't make decisions like this on the spot, but that was an excellent presentation.

We're going to take a very brief recess so the Center-Shelby County folks can get back and Mr. Cooley can get back to lead that fine Lufkin District, and the Temple people will move forward.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)

CITY OF TEMPLE

(Mayor William Jones III, Drayton McLane, Sen. Troy Fraser, Mark Watson)

MR. JOHNSON: We appreciate your indulgence and the fine people from Temple and Central Texas have made their way down Interstate 35, we're glad that you're here. I understand that there was no traffic and that you don't expect any traffic on the return trip.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: I understand that Mayor Jones from the City of Temple is going to lead the delegation, so we're delighted that you're here and welcome.

MAYOR JONES: Thank you. Good morning. Chairman Johnson, Commissioner Williamson, Commissioner Nichols, Mr. Behrens, it's a pleasure to be here today. Thank you very much for the opportunity to make this presentation before the Texas Transportation Commission.

As we begin, let me make an introduction, if I might, of our delegation. We're absolutely pleased and proud to have to have Senator Troy Fraser with us today, our state senator. Senator Fraser, thank you for being here. We also have our County Judge John Burrows here and Commissioner Leroy Schiller is here with us from Bell County today. Thank you to both of them for being here. Our Temple City Council is here with us today, Mayor Pro Tem Sally Myers -- if you'll please stand as I call your names and we'll have our delegation presented. Council Members Tony Jeter and Patsy Luna are here with us today, and Council Member Martha Tyrock sends her regrets for not being able to be here, she's on a special mission to get prayer for us with the Pope -- she's in Italy with her family today, so we've gone for a little higher assistance, but we appreciate this opportunity.

Also we have our City Manager Mark Watson who will also present with me today. Former Mayor Keifer Marshall has graced us today; we really appreciate Keifer being here. Thank you, sir. And Temple and Texas businessman Drayton McLane is here with us today; he will also be a presenter. Thank you, Drayton

We have representatives from throughout all parts of our city, Temple Chamber of Commerce, Temple Economic Development Corporation, the Tax Increment Financing Reinvestment Zone Number 1, and the Temple Business League are all with us here today. Would the Temple delegation please stand? Thank you very much, thank you all for being here today.

Also we're very pleased to have Richard Skopik, district engineer from Waco, here with us today. Thank you, Richard, for being here. And from the Belton area engineering office, we have Jim Cowan and Ali Bashi who have provided just tremendous support to Temple through the years, but specifically on this project have done a lot of work for us and we truly appreciate everything they do.

I'm going to just present a little overview for you to begin with. Over the years, of course, we've worked very closely with the Texas Department of Transportation, specifically through their Waco office and on the Loop 363 project. This has actually been underway since the mid-'80s and the current section has been open since 1988 which basically is a two-lane road which will essentially be one of the frontage roads, the north and west frontage road of the whole Northwest Loop project.

The elements of this project are the four lanes with a depressed median, the continuous frontage roads eventually, a very, very important grade separation across the main line of the Burlington Northern-Santa Fe Railroad, and a relocation of a spur eventually in this project. The interchange at State Highway 36 and Industrial Boulevard will be very important pieces that keep traffic flowing through this Northwest Industrial Park for us, and then a redo of our interchange at FM 2305.

Loop 363 is an extremely vital link through Temple, connecting all facets of the Temple economy together: industry, business, medicine, agriculture, the military, and our educational institutions. Northwest Loop runs right through the middle of our Northwest Industrial Park which is the initial part and a part of our Tax Increment Financing Reinvestment Zone Number 1.

The Northwest Industrial Park is the home to over 70 manufacturing and distribution facilities and they use that Northwest Loop 363 every day to move their products in and out of our industrial park, as well as being the access for the workers to and from the jobs.

The next photograph shows the city of Temple limits bordered in red; the entire Loop 363 infrastructure is in the light blue ring around the center of our city, and in the northwest upper left-hand corner is the Northwest Loop 363 section which, again, is right through the middle of our Northwest Industrial Park and our reinvestment zone.

Again, we're very proud to have Senator Troy Fraser here today and his district assistant for our area, Jay Brown, is with us; Representative Dianne Delisi could not be with us today but Chris Augustine is here from her office, and we appreciate she and Jay both being here with us in support today.

We've garnered tremendous support from our entire region. Of course, the county represented here today by the judge and Commissioner Schiller. City of Belton, City of Killeen, Copperas Cove, Rogers and Troy have all given us resolutions of support, and KTUTS, the Killeen-Temple Urban Transportation Study has also been in support, and Sally Myers our mayor pro-tem is actually the chair of that group.

Other organizations and entities within our community: Temple Independent School District, Temple College have endorsed this project with the support of resolutions, as have the chamber of commerce, the TEDC and our Temple Business League.

Many companies reside in Temple, world headquarters of Wilsonart International; also our largest employer, Scott & White Hospital; the McLane Group; Materials Transportation Company; Panel Specialists; PDI, a division of McLane; Temple Bottling Company; and Cloud Construction all have expressed support for this project.

A little bit closer view of the loops, both the Northwest and the South Loop show the location of those major businesses of ours, all having access and needing this loop infrastructure to move through and around our community.

It's my great pleasure at this time to ask Temple businessman Drayton McLane to come forward and tell us a little bit about the business community of Temple and the importance of this project for the business community.

MR. McLANE: Thank you, and it's an honor to be here. Chairman Johnson, Commissioner Nichols, Commissioner Williamson, Mr. Behrens, thank you for allowing us to make this presentation. My responsibility is to identify from a business standpoint and from our citizens in the area why this loop is needed.

I was involved in 1966 in moving a family business from Cameron to Temple and it was one of the first that moved in the industrial park, and it has grown dramatically since then. And you can see from some of our data that we're presenting to you today that this would certainly address several issues and problems that we have: the congestion, the amount of traffic we have, and in particular, the last point there is that the loop now crosses the Burlington-Santa Fe track there and because of the trains coming through and the amount of traffic, particularly truck traffic, that this is a great problem that we experience.

There are a number of companies in our industrial park but some of the key ones: Wal-Mart has the grocery distribution system for all of their supercenters throughout the state of Texas and New Mexico; Wilsonart, the largest manufacturer of laminated plastics in the United States is located there; McLane Southwest which is involved in grocery distribution to supermarkets, convenience stores and fast-food restaurants are there; Performance Food Group that's in the food service distribution business; and Doane Product is a very valuable member and they make dog food and pet food of various kinds in that area.

The real issue is that there are over 10,000 people who work in the industrial park each day now and there are 62 locations, 46 companies. Three of the companies have over 400 employees and six of the companies have over 800 employees and these are continuing to grow quite rapidly. If we'll look at some of the things that are prepared there, we're everywhere from furniture manufacturing -- shipping and distribution is really the heart of it, but manufacturing of laminated plastics and many other commodities are made there.

Some of the additional ones that have just been added in the last two years is a computer call center and then also a communications call center that has several hundred employees and these continue to develop, and then a beverage bottling and distribution system.

The slide here shows the entrance of the Temple industrial park when I moved there in 1966 but it really has shifted west and where the loop is located, because of the loop, business has certainly moved in that direction. We can show several of the plants that are located in that area and we have several additional ones that are, we think, headed in the direction of Temple and what we're trying to accomplish.

It's been a magnificent area for particularly distribution because of the center location, located on Interstate 35, Highway 36, you can go every direction and particularly it's about in the middle -- it's one of the reasons we located there -- between servicing Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. And we feel that it's going to continue to grow and the congestion is going to be pretty severe as we go through this.

It's my pleasure now to introduce our Senator Troy Fraser who has visited and certainly worked and seen the conditions that are there and the congestion that is there, and it's my privilege to introduce him at this time.

(Applause.)

SEN. FRASER: Thank you, Drayton. Chairman. Good to see you today, commissioners, good to be here. Actually, it's always great to follow Drayton. For years I kept telling George W. about my background as a relief pitcher and offering my services to the Rangers and he never took me up, and now I've started beating on Drayton, and even though I'm 52 I probably still have a couple of good years left.

(General laughter.)

SEN. FRASER: It's good to be with you today and as you know, we're coming back again on this Northwest Loop and since we were here before, I think we've made a lot of progress. I appreciate Ric and Robert, I know you have both been out there, have seen it; Johnnie, I know you're very aware of looking at this project. This is not only an important project for this community but from the state of Texas perspective.

If you would allow me, I'm going to take my state senator for District 24 hat off and put on my chairman of economic development hat and go back and talk about the first part of the meeting, the presentation we saw today. I can't tell you how excited I am about a project of looking forward of where Texas is going to go, putting together a transportation system statewide, especially because the area I represent is bordered by 35 on one side, I-10 on the bottom and I-20 on the top, so there's a lot of what we're looking at in the state will be impacted.

But even more important than that, it's always been kind of my project to try and figure out a way to get the trucks and the cars traveling somehow to move the product north to south, east to west. Long-term, I love the concept of the rail lines, being able to piggyback a truck on the rail lines, and of all the things we're looking at, I think that's probably one of the great things that will happen. But until we do that, we're going to have to figure out a way to have the trucks and the cars survive on the systems that we have, and I've got a great concern about the next 10 to 15, 20 years. As we're completing 35, we've got congestion now, and as you know, I've been told repeatedly the toughest thing we're going to have on 35 in doing that system are the three bridges in Temple. I mean, that's where the bottleneck is going to be, and we all know that even if we're wonderful above and below, if we have a bottleneck, it's going to bottleneck both directions and that's going to hurt the system.

Long term or the next 6, 8, 10 years as we're completing this, I think the thing that we're talking about today, I hesitate to continue using the word "reliever route" because I don't think that's what we envision this as, but as someone that ran hundreds of trucks, truck drivers are going to find the point of least resistance; they'll figure it out. As things congest as we're repairing those bridges in the center of town, they're going to look for another place to go. The route that's there now, we have 10,000 employees out there that are having to get to work, you have 1,350 trucks per day using that two-lane strip right now -- that's 400,000 trucks today, it's increasing every day, and that's before we have the chance of trucks off the highway being dumped onto that. We've got the four lanes completed down below; logic tells me that if we complete that other two-lane section up on the top and get four lanes around there, that that's going to be a great addition to moving traffic north and south as we try to complete this other goal.

I'm really encouraged by the thing that the community has done. I continue to tell them that if you're going to come with a project, you're going to have to dip into your pockets and make sure you're doing your part. As other presentations you're going to see today, we don't have to ask for right of way, they've already bought that; we don't have to ask for environmental, it's already been done; all we've got to do is come in and lay the pavement for this strip of road.

It's going to cost about $24 million; the community has already put in $5 million; I think you're going to hear in a minute that they're going to kick in additional dollars where the total cost of this project, they're going to come in with about a third of the money to do this, and that money that that community is spending not only benefits Bell County and Temple but I would suggest it greatly helps the economic status of the state of Texas because it's going to give us the ability to move products north and south as we're doing this very valuable expansion on the highway.

Thank you for being here today. I congratulate you on the project you laid out this morning; it's a good one. And I thank the Governor for having the foresight to bring this forward, but I know this has been the work of TxDOT and you will be the one to have to implement it, and we thank you for the hard work.

Please look hard at this project we're suggesting today. I think it's a good bang for the buck for the State of Texas. Thank you.

(Applause.)

MR. NICHOLS: I really just had a comment. While you're here I just wanted to thank you for all the help you have given the Department of Transportation over the years. I know in the five years I've been on the commission, any time I ever called, asked, you've always taken the time to work with us on our problems or our legislation stuff. I just want to make sure your constituents know how much we appreciate that.

SEN. FRASER: Well, and this is a dual deal. I have commented to several people this morning that all three of you, I feel like I've got a wonderful relationship with, and if you come to me and tell me something, I know you're doing it for the good of Texas. We've got some good long-range challenges that obviously are going to take money to do but if Texas is going to continue to be a leader, we've got to address them. I thank you for your commitment to what you do but my door is always open to listen when you have things for me.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

MR. WATSON: Mr. Chairman, commissioners, thank you very much. It's good to be back today; we promised we would come back and it's certainly been a fast year but a busy one.

I want to just remind you and tie you to the past and some of the history on this project. As you'll recall, in 1994 we went to the commission and requested support of this project; we were back in 2001 for Priority II-funding authorization for the loop. After that delegation appearance, we've been working with our superb district engineer Richard Skopik and we have come to you with a phased project proposal to begin to make this project a reality. That original $35.2 million project was what we were looking at; we recognize times are tight and so forth, and we have brought forward a Phase I.

To describe Phase 1 we're looking at constructing the future northbound frontage roads between I-35 North and State Highway 53 and 36, with the existing roadway constructed by the city which will serve as a southbound frontage road -- the roads in the middle will follow at a later date; constructing an improved interchange at the intersection of Northwest Loop 363 and State Highway 36. Then we move to Phase II which is to improve the interchanges at Farm to Market Road 2305 and also redesigned ramps and frontage road improvements at SH-53 and 56.

Phase III will be many years ahead when there's plenty of money to build road projects in the state of Texas and we will look forward to that day when a four-lane main roadway will be constructed with grade separations at Industrial Boulevard, at Lucius McCelvey Drive, and the railroad crossings we'll conduct redesigned ramps.

I want to focus real quickly on the map behind you there to give you an idea of the reinvestment zone. This is where the activity and action is occurring in the city of Temple at this time. That represents roughly 29 percent of the entire square mile area of the city of Temple and all of those areas are involving growth at the present time.

As we turn to the next item, the Northwest Industrial Park is part of that zone and it's approximately $201 million in taxable value, but if you look at the next chart, you will see when that growth has substantially occurred. We're finding a need to expand our businesses, expand our factories, and all of this has occurred $131 million in expansion in the last several years.

Looking at the yellow line representing that loop, it goes right through the heart of the industrial areas that are serving the community and representing anything from liquid nails to distribution and grocery distribution and onward and upward.

A financial summary of the reinvestment zone, we have to date spent $12.6 million in land acquisition, new streets, utility lines, but in the next four to five year through Fiscal Year 2005, we have very aggressive plans to invest $26.1 million in additional improvements to the infrastructure in that area.

I want to focus on something that's happened in the last month through a linkage and partnership with TxDOT and that's our aviation activities. We're looking at building a $2-1/2 million hangar to accommodate the American Missile Command, AMCOM, refurbishing military helicopters. We now have 130 helicopters out at Draughn Miller Airport and creating quite a number of new jobs within our community just in the last six months, and it looks like it's going to continue to expand, and all of those helicopters are being restored there.

This is important to us and we appreciate your time. I'll turn it back to Mayor Jones.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Wait a minute. Nice try.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Chairman, are you aware that there is a serious and fatal flaw in this proposal?

MR. JOHNSON: I was not aware of that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: But let me illuminate the serious and fatal flaw.

MR. JOHNSON: Please do.

MR. WILLIAMSON: It appears that one of the very greatest restaurants between San Antonio and Dallas is now located in old downtown Temple, and I don't see any improvement off of 35 to get me over to Mr. Cheeves' Restaurant with any of the quickness that a commissioner deserves. I want to know why we're not taking care of downtown Temple.

(General laughter.)

MR. WATSON: Oh, believe me, we are. We could always handle a little bit more.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I don't know him personally and I'm not kin to him, Mr. Nichols, but you need to stop in that restaurant. Three or four months it's been open, or five? It is a great place to dine and spend an hour and a half with your wife just visiting; it's a diamond just sitting there in the middle of Temple and it's great.

MR. WATSON: Would love to have you up and let us know.

(Applause.)

MAYOR JONES: Thank you for pointing out that flaw and we'd certainly look forward to the opportunity of correcting that at your earliest convenience, gentlemen.

(General laughter.)

MAYOR JONES: Well, we've heard Drayton talk about the economic development and the importance of that industrial park to the City of Temple, and Mr. Watson has of course told you how we've broken that project down now into more bite-size pieces, into three phases for us to be able to develop that and get the important pieces started and then we can finish it out as we can over the years.

The first phase that we're asking for the Priority I funding right now, right of way acquisitions require about another million dollars to finish up little bits and pieces that have been added now as the district engineers have finished the design on that and indicated some different areas that need to be picked up, little slivers and pieces here and there.

Utility relocation, engineering design, and then of course the construction bring the project from here forward to be about $19.8 million. Our previous investment in this project is $5 million which includes the engineering design, the acquisition of the right of way, the vast majority of the rights of way that exist today for that, and the construction, and then the opening of that loop in 1988.

Phase II would be almost $9 million which would primarily be the interchange redesigns at State Highway 36 and FM 2305 which join the South Loop starting to head south towards I-35 again on the south side of Temple and connect it with the Northwest Loop.

And then the final phase, Phase III, just under $24 million would be basically doing the main lanes and the grade separations that would be required at BN-SF and Lucius McCelvey and Industrial Boulevard as designed by the Waco District.

What we're asking you to consider here today, gentlemen, is to authorize Strategic Priority I funding for Phase I of our Northwest Loop expansion between I-35 and State Highway 36 and also to grant Strategic Priority II funding authorization for Phase II which is to develop those interchanges at Highway 367 and FM 2305, both very important to keep this project moving on into the years in the future.

To help expedite this and get this added to the Unified Transportation Plan, we are bringing to you today $3.3 million, $1 million more in right of way acquisition and $2.3 million in cash to be able to chip in and help get this thing moving. The breakdown for that is on the next slide and shows that a couple million dollars for construction, the right of way and utility relocation. And in our final slide we show the total Phase I development cost including the frontage road that exists already that this project is just under $25 million. We've already put forth and we built the lanes that exist there today for $5 million, did the right of way acquisition which is virtually all in place for the entire project. We are today bringing to you a check for $3.3 million, leaving $16-1/2 million that's required to finish this phase. I understand that about $7 million of that is available from other sources as identified by the Waco District Office and thus requiring actually about $9.5 million in Texas Department of Transportation funds.

MR. NICHOLS: Can we cash that check?

MR. JOHNSON: Right into Fund 6.

MAYOR JONES: Please note on there that it's valid for 90 days.

(General laughter and applause.)

MAYOR JONES: We want to thank you very, very much for the opportunity to make this presentation today. The city of Temple is a vibrant community in Central Texas and we think for the entire state of Texas. We're at the pivot point on I-35; we're not here to beat that one up today, you guys know what I-35 is and how it lies in the whole strategic scheme of traffic moving through Temple, and the Northwest Loop is really the piece that we're interested in and it will have an impact as time goes on. And we thank you very much for this opportunity today.

MR. JOHNSON: Mayor Jones, thank you.

Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have one.

MR. JOHNSON: Ric.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I've been on the commission about 15 months and this is at least the second time I've seen a presentation from Temple and maybe the third time. Just out of curiosity, a community your size and with strong businesses and influential people statewide, it seems to me that you should have some sort of permanent presence or representation here in Austin. Have you ever considered like maybe hiring someone to represent your interests?

MAYOR JONES: Well, sir, I'm very glad you mentioned that fact, and if we could find somebody as good and competent as Mr. Cliff Johnson to represent the City of Temple, Texas -- is Cliff here?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, he's here. Can we get him to stand up.

MAYOR JONES: He's hiding back there. Cliff Johnson are you back there?

MR. WILLIAMSON: We're probably not going to let you go until Cliff Johnson -- I want to see what competence looks like. Oh, the Cliff Johnson from Palestine?

MAYOR JONES: The one and only.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Is that the guy you have here?

MAYOR JONES: We're considering that highly.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Will miracles never cease.

MAYOR JONES: And he's been a tremendous asset for us, I assure you, and you're probably very, very well aware of that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I never stop hearing about it.

(General laughter.)

MAYOR JONES: I understand.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a serious question unless Mr. Nichols wants to ask.

MR. NICHOLS: I had a couple of questions and a comment.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Go ahead; you probably have the same thing on your mind I have on mine.

MR. NICHOLS: We'll find out. First of all, I want to compliment you on an excellent presentation, very good. Also, in the community's stepping up to the plate in local contributions, a lot of people ask for things and it's easy to ask for something but when the community has united to the point that they reach in their own pocket and step forward, it's a very meaningful vested interest in the project, and we appreciate how hard that is to do and appreciate your stepping up to that.

I think my question probably is going to be going to the district engineer Mr. Skopik. On the Priority I when we use Strategic Priority money, we want to make sure that it can get to a letting, I think, within 36 months or something of that nature. Are we in a position, at the district level this project has advanced forward enough that you could go to construction in that kind of time period?

MR. SKOPIK: Yes, sir, within the next three years, absolutely. Right now, of course, the only authority that I've got is the old LRP or planning authority and really we're going back and completing, I guess refreshing the environmental documents and reworking the schematic to bring everything up to speed from what was originally done, so we're getting to a point that we're going to need some elevated authority, at least to the design mode.

MR. NICHOLS: We've got Phase I, Phase II, like particularly on Phase I.

MR. SKOPIK: Phase I, yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: But that is advanced enough but is it already in Priority II?

MR. SKOPIK: No, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: But the right of way basically has been done, environmental work and all those things?

MR. SKOPIK: It was done previously when the city was authorized back in 1987 by the commission then to develop the project really completely on their own, and then we would take it onto the system.

MR. NICHOLS: This is really kind of unusual.

MR. SKOPIK: It's very unusual. In fact, I had to go back and do a lot of research and reading and all the minute orders and try to really understand and talk to all the city leadership that had some recollection of how it all happened.

MR. NICHOLS: I'm sure you've communicated all your findings to our TP&P group?

MR. SKOPIK: Yes.

MR. NICHOLS: Usually if something moves from LRP to Priority I, they like to see it staged, but this is a situation where you've got an unusual circumstance that it has been acquired and all that, so I assume the utility protection has been in there since the right of way was acquired a long time ago.

MR. SKOPIK: That's correct.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay, that answered my question.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, then this question is probably legitimately addressed to the mayor.

MR. JOHNSON: Richard, don't go far.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mayor, in the past couple of months we have heard -- and before I forget about it, as you heard me earlier with Senator Staples and Mr. Christian, I have the same comments about Senator Fraser and Ms. Delisi, they are also both warriors for the transportation world and we appreciate deeply their commitment to our department and a better Texas.

MAYOR JONES: We're very fortunate to be represented by the both of them.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Not all members of the legislature, most of whom with whom I served, understand the long-term social significance of a good transportation infrastructure. It's more than business, it's lifestyle and so forth, but in the last few months we've had a pretty strong push from the United States military and the Copperas Cove area to do something about their particularly downtown area but the route from Copperas Cove over to Interstate 35. We've had some discussion about a loop around the east side of Temple or the southeast side; there are several big projects beginning to need attention in this area, as should always be the case when population is growing and business is expanding.

You saw the corridor laid out today and you heard a very real world discussion of the financial dilemma the state faces in taking its transportation system to the next level considering the population explosion and the air quality issues we have in the state. There are perhaps only one or two in this state better examples of a multi-county regional mobility authority other than the four counties around Temple, maybe two, maybe just one. You are primed for the Texas Department of Transportation to be your partner in building a series of regional toll roads that would allow you to retain the tolls in your community and continue to expand your road system over the next 50 years.

Now, I don't want your delegation to think that I'm speaking certainly for the other two or that I'm opposed to rational consideration of your request, I don't want you to think that, but it's sort of my role to point out to every delegation that comes through that has the apparent prerequisites for a strong RMA to say to you: You might can help yourself and we might can help you faster and quicker and certainly better for the long haul when Fort Hood has 2 million soldiers and when Temple is 500,000 people and when it's the third-largest population center in the state -- as it certainly will be, Mr. McLane -- it might be better for you to be thinking a little bit beyond just this project and I think we intend to be very aggressive in helping communities that make that decision over the next six months because there is no way for us to fund everyone's request for the next 20 years.

The tax revenue we have available to us, Senator, doesn't allow us to do that and we're not asking for more, we are just observing it's just not possible, and yet these are the things that need to be done for the state to address its air quality issues, to address its population explosion, to address its quality of life. So for whatever it's worth, I sure think a high speed rolling rail from Lampasas across to Temple and around both sides of Temple and the Belton area, I think there's some remarkable things. I'm looking at this railroad and thinking that a regional mobility authority could help the BN-SF move some of its tracks out of the city of Temple and away from disruption to the public, but you've got to establish and get those tolls coming in first.

MAYOR JONES: Well, it's encouraging to hear that people outside of our region really recognize what a great place it is and how dynamic our region can be.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Plus think of all the money you could make when we shut down 35 for two years to rebuild it and they would have to go through your toll road. You could pay off most of your debt just in that two-year period.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you for your presentation.

MAYOR JONES: Thank you, Commissioner.

MR. JOHNSON: Mayor, a couple of questions and maybe Richard can shed some light and help me. Loop 363 in its current form, is any of it developed to finished condition on the east side or anywhere in terms of having main lanes and frontage road?

MR. SKOPIK: The southwest quadrant essentially from the South Loop interchange with I-35 and then if you move in an easterly direction towards -- if you'll look at your map -- towards State Highway 95 and then where 36 and 190 go to Cameron to the south, that segment, although we have it in the UTP for improvements, upgrades, it is a four-lane freeway for the most part. It's not up to current standards, it does have some at-grade crossovers in a few locations, but there is a frontage road system, we've made some spot improvements with the assistance of the city and other partnerships, developers, particularly to make improvements, ramp improvements. But to answer your question, that is the one portion that's essentially operating as a freeway.

MR. JOHNSON: And the rest of the East Loop 363 is not in anywhere near that form?

MR. SKOPIK: On the east side from essentially State Highway 36/190 and on around east and north to I-35 on the north, that's all a two-lane facility; there is right of way there for a four-lane-type facility; I'm not sure what that footprint actually would fit now, it probably would not be quite enough, but there is additional width there beyond just the two-lane.

I will say too, Mr. Johnson, if you'll refocus back to the South Loop interchange with I-35, from there going west and then as you move north -- which is part of this Phase II request that's before you today -- that section also is basically a four-lane divided freeway with somewhat of a frontage road system, and much of that frontage road system on that section, if I recall -- it's been before my time -- was constructed all by the City of Temple.

SEN. FRASER: If I can jump in. We have a two-lane now with a four-lane continuing, you add another two-lane and that will give you four lanes from 35 to 35, so the commitment they're asking for today is just that two-lane which would give a full four-lane loop.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. The other question I had, I believe previously there's been some money dedicated to a grade change over the main rail.

MR. SKOPIK: That's right, the BN-SF Railroad.

MR. JOHNSON: What is the status of that project?

MR. SKOPIK: Well, that project, as we're developing or redeveloping the schematic for this whole program before you, that is all being done simultaneously. In other words, we are planning and moving forward -- we will move forward with the railroad grade separation project in some form or capacity if something is not able to happen on this request, but we are moving --

MR. JOHNSON: It would be a good partnering project for the Phase I component of this.

MR. SKOPIK: Absolutely. Basically we could marry the funds together, bridge funds for safety purposes that were identified. That's a high volume crossing, both rail and the truck movements that are at-grade, as well as vehicular traffic, and that's why it ranked very high statewide and is in the position that it's in. It's ready for the construct mode; I have full authority to move forward with that aspect.

MR. JOHNSON: Now, there are two other rail lines, one coming from the southeast and another coming from the southwest; it looks like they merge and become the main line for the BN-SF.

MR. SKOPIK: Yes, sir.

MR. JOHNSON: Are those problem areas also with traffic flow?

MR. SKOPIK: Where you see all those railroads coming together, that's in the downtown Temple --

MR. JOHNSON: I'm talking about where they intersect 363, where they cross 363.

MR. SKOPIK: On the north?