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Texas Department of Transportation Commission Meeting

Waco Convention Center
Bosque Theater
100 Washington Avenue
Waco, Texas

9:00 a.m. Thursday, April 29, 2004

COMMISSION MEMBERS:

CHAIRMAN RIC WILLIAMSON
JOHN W. JOHNSON
ROBERT L. NICHOLS
HOPE ANDRADE
TED HOUGHTON, JR.

STAFF:

MICHAEL W. BEHRENS, Executive Director
RICHARD MONROE, General Counsel
CHERYL M. WILLIAMS, Executive Assistant to the Deputy Executive Director
DEE HERNANDEZ, Minute Order Clerk

P R O C E E D I N G S

MR. WILLIAMSON: Good morning. It's 9:12 A.M., and I would like to call this meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission to order. I want to welcome all of you to our meeting today. It's a pleasure to have everyone in attendance, particularly those of you who have taken time to drive so far to be here with us.

This is the fourth time that the former Highway Department and now Transportation Commission has convened its monthly meeting in Waco. The first time was in October of 1958 ... I think that was about the time Kirby Pickett was born [laughter] ... in the midst of the interstate building project. The last time the Commission met in Waco was August of 1968. Let's hope that it's not another 36 years before we make it back to Waco.

I would like to note for the record that public notice of this meeting containing all of the items on the agenda was filed with the office of the Secretary of State at 2:01 P.M. on April the 20th, 2004. It is our tradition or our habit at the Commission to ask all of the Commissioners to offer remarks prior to beginning our business, and it is this Chairman's habit to ask for those remarks from the most recently appointed member first, working its way back to the Chair. And as Ms. Andrade has reminded me, Mr. Houghton by about two hours is the most recently appointed Commissioner. We will ask Mr. Houghton to offer his remarks at this time. Ted.

MR. HOUGHTON: We have so many ways of calculating this thing, you know. We've gone Hope has gone first, I've gone first, age, beauty, looks, glamour, and if that were the case, then Robert Nichols would be going first. [Laughter.]

I want to thank the fine City of Waco and the District here for hosting this. This is a whole lot of fun. The first one I did out of town was my first meeting, which was in San Antonio, and equally as much fun to get out and see what's going on in the great state of Texas and get away from the center of power or the perceived center of power to out here where it really happens with you all.

And I know we have guests here from other parts than Waco, but it is -- it's refreshing to see what is happening in this great state, and I am privileged to see in my travel what is going on in Texas, especially in, as we call it, the boom era. We are a benefactor of other things going on in this country, the tremendous growth, and with that growth we have the opportunity and challenge to build systems to move services surrounding people, and that is our charge, and we hopefully can meet that challenge; but again thank you very, very much. I look forward to a long relationship.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Houghton is from El Paso, and while we don't recognize -- or we don't represent regions of the state, we generally all take responsibility for advocating different regions of the state. Ted advocates for West Texas.

Ms. Andrade is next from San Antonio. Hope.

MS. ANDRADE: Thank you. And thank you for acknowledging that Ted Houghton is indeed the newest member. He always alludes to me as to speak first because I'm the youngest, and I say, "Look, Chairman, this is like twins. The Governor announced me first, and then he flew to El Paso and also announced him; so I was the first born and Ted was the second." But thank you all for hosting us. It's great to be in Waco instead of going through Waco.

Yesterday I arrived about a little after 3:00, and I was on the road for about 2-1/2 hours with 250 trucks, and I happen to know that there are some people here from Laredo, and welcome to those, but they reminded me that those trucks came from Laredo; so I now understand the truck problem that we have.

Thank you to the District. We had a wonderful evening last night, and it certainly confirmed that again we are so proud of our staff here. But this is a great time for Texas, as I've been mentioning, and it's a great time for TxDOT. And thank you all for being interested in our transportation in Texas, and I look forward to doing business here. Thank you all so much.

MR. HOUGHTON: Thank you, Hope. Next in order would be John Johnson, our fifth Commission member. John is from Houston, tends to represent Houston and the coast area. John had unfortunately unexpected business at the very last moment and had to tend to that business. He extends his regrets again to the staff, to the locally elected officials, and particularly to the citizens of Waco. Everyone who has ever met John Johnson knows he's interested in all of Texas, and it's unlike him to miss a meeting. He would not have missed it had it not been important; so John sends his regrets.

My colleague and good friend in East Texas, the "East Texas Flash", Robert.

MR. NICHOLS: Thank you. It's good to be here in Waco. I will say that we've been given a very warm welcome. We had a very nice dinner last night with the employees of the District, and we had a nice reception yesterday afternoon with people from the community, and I will say I don't know how many people are running for Mayor in Waco, but there were at least three that were at the meeting, and I assure you we gave them equal time.

When it comes to the argument about who's the youngest, I'm never included, but those of you who have never been to a Commission Meeting, we welcome you to our meeting. A lot of people think we're just going to be talking about highways today. There are a lot of issues for those of you who stay the entire meeting, and you'll see that we'll be touching international bridges, we'll be touching transit, we'll be touching railroads and a lot of range of things; so we appreciate your interest in being here, and drive safely after the meeting when we're done. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Robert. I'm Ric Williamson, and I'm from west of Fort Worth, and I generally try to speak for the northern half of the state, on issues what affect the northern half of the state.

Let's all take a moment and check our cell phones. This is embarrassing, but I really need for you to do it because there's nothing worse than for the phones to go off. Let's all check our phones and make sure they're on the silent mode, please. Take a moment. Don't assume they are. Check and be sure. I didn't do this for the District Meeting last night, and my phone embarrassingly went off during the meeting. Thank you very much.

Our meetings are punctuated by breaks. We let people move in and out. We are an active Commission. We speak at great length with each other and with those in the audience who bring business to the Commission. We try mightily to recognize everyone of importance. Every Texan is important. There are some Texans who choose to serve publicly, and we receive the benefit of their time, and we try to recognize those Texans whenever they're here.

Having served with Mr. Phillips, I can't wait to start out with him. We have a House member. Representative Larry Phillips from the extreme north end of the state from my legislative district is with us today. It's always good to see you. You're a staunch advocate for transportation, a good partner, and we appreciate your being here.

We also have ... if I mispronounce the name, Bruce, you'll accept my apologize ahead of time ... Ron Parnell, Bruce Buchard. Is that right? Mark Watson, a friend of mine from the Temple area, and Russell Devorsky; is that correct? I won't mention our State staff unless you think it would be appropriate.

We have with the City of Waco Christopher Evilia. Close? Bill Falco, Barry Sullivan, Lynn

Passmore, of course Representative Phillips, Mary Gauer.

MS. GAUER: Gauer.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm sorry?

MS. GAUER: Gow'-er [phonetic].

MR. WILLIAMSON: "Gauer". Thank you. My longtime good buddy, Mark Tyrock, who I guess still serves the City, if you haven't left in the last month since I talked to you last. Mr. Jones, Bill Jones, and Shelly Terry. And from Grayson County, because they're fixing to become the, I guess, Third Army, Gene Shore and Tim McGraw, two good guys. Jon Burrows. Jon has been active in transportation matters from Bell County, County Judge. Richard Cortese. Dee Smith with Senator Averitt's office.

Senator Averitt was with us last night. I think he had some obligations today, but as is the case with Representative Phillips, you should know that Senator Averitt is one of the leaders of transportation policy in the state. He is a strong advocate for a modern transportation system. He's a great part of TxDOT. We would do anything within our power to help that guy out. He's just really, really good. We appreciate his contributions to transportation. Steve Alexander, Brady Diaz, and David Blackburn. David? And Judith Gutierrez. How are you?

MS. GUTIERREZ: I'm very well, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Now, are you going to speak for Waco or for Webb County, or do you care?

MR. GUTIERREZ: Webb County.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Webb County. Okay.

MS. GUTIERREZ: Both, I guess.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you for taking the time to be at our meeting.

I need to take a moment to share with you a story about a gentleman by the name of Robert J. Potts. Adjacent to our Waco District Office just north of here is the Potts Interchange. Now, as it turns out, Mr. Potts was born in my residential town of Weatherford, was born in 1877, and he's the son of Charles Brook and Elizabeth Matilda Potts. He attended that school, the other school in Brazos County ... What's the name of that, Kirby?

MR. BEHRENS: Texas A&M.

MR. WILLIAMSON: ... Texas A&M until 1907. You know, I was thinking that after he retired the number of Longhorns dropped by about 16 percent.

MR. BEHRENS: What a beautiful day, I'm telling you. [Laughter.]

MR. WILLIAMSON: He graduated from Texas A&M in 1907. He established the Highway Security Department at Texas A&M in 1910, and he's either the first or the second Professor of Highway Engineering in the United States. There's some disagreement about who was first or who was second. And most importantly, he's responsible for writing the law that established the Texas Highway Department in 1917.

He was one of the early founders of Texas Good Roads Association and the Associated General Contractors of America, and he served as a member of the Highway Commission from 1949 to 1955. Upon his retirement, he was honored by having the Potts Interchange named for him. And I might add that early on Mr. Potts wrote the specification for highway engineers that we all read with amusement from time to time. The specification was that stumps of less than six inches are allowed to remain in the roadway. And I guess, Mike, that spec still exists, which accounts for all of the potholes. [Laughter.]

Okay. Anyway, Potts died in 1962 and was buried in the Oakwood Cemetery in Waco. It's appropriate that we return to the final resting place of truly one of the founding fathers of the Texas Transportation Commission. He was a man of national significance who deserves to be recognized today.

Before we begin the business portion of our meeting, I need to remind each of you that if you wish to address the Commission, you need to fill a card out. The cards are in the lobby. We have two colors of cards. If you want to comment on a specific agenda item, you need to fill out the yellow card form, please, and identify the agenda item that you wish to speak upon. If you don't want to speak on a specific agenda item but you want to offer comments during our open comment section at the end of the meeting, then I need you to fill out a blue card. Regardless of the color of the card, we would ask that you try to hold your remarks to three minutes.

McLennan County Judge Jim Lewis ... Judge, where are you? I want to thank you for the hospitality. I've already recognized Bell County Judge Jon Burrows, who again has been a longtime activist on transportation matters in Central Texas and is well received by the Department. I've already tried to recognize as many of the other County Judges as I could. If I've left any out, I want to be sure I've covered all of my bases. Hill County, Kenneth Davis; from Limestone County, Eleanor Holmes; from Falls County, Thomas Sehon. Is that the correct pronunciation, "Sehon?" Coryell County, John Hall; from Hamilton County, Fred Cox; and Cole Word from Bosque County. I recognize each of you and thank you for your attendance.

To the Mayor of Waco, Linda Ethridge, who couldn't be with us today ... I understand she's in DC raising money for the fair city ... we appreciate the hospitality. And if we've left anyone out, I apologize. I tried to do the best I can to cover them, but like all, I'm not perfect; so I apologize to you.

I want to extend a special thank you to Larry, the Waco City Manager, Larry Groth. There you are. It was very nice last night at the reception you put together, and we really appreciate it. We had a wonderful time here.

Kirby, do you want to stand up and take a bow, buddy?

KIRBY PICKETT: No.

MR. WILLIAMSON: The Commission will take the opportunity to especially recognize your presence. You know, we're a State agency. We have 14,150 or thereabouts employees and multiple thousands of retirees and multiple more thousands who at one time worked for the Texas Department of Transportation, and we consider every one an extended family.

Kirby was with the Department for many years. His roots are in Waco, and he returned to Waco when he retired, but we never miss a chance to say "hello" and "thank you" every time one of our longtimers shows up; so Kirby, hello. Thank you. I didn't have anything to do with that joke last night. Sorry. [Laughter.]

Let's see. We have some District Engineers: Matt Dilihaney, Lynn Passmore, Mark Thomas, Maribel Chavez, my District Engineer, Rick Clark. Thank you, guys, for showing up. Where's Terry? Terry right in the back. We've got a majority of District Engineers, I think. We could have a DE Meeting, Mike.

And then finally I want to take the opportunity to thank the leadership of Waco for at least studying the prospect of holding new highway facilities and considering additional lanes added to existing roadways. We travel around the state, all five of us, and we try to be consistent in our message, whether it's El Paso or Fort Worth or Waco or Dallas or Houston or San Antonio or Austin.

If we in the state elected House and Senate members who ran on the campaign of "I want to raise your taxes" and if we sent those types of members to the House and Senate, we would no doubt be raising gas taxes, but the reality is when I served in the legislature I never campaigned on that platform, and I don't know of one successful elected official who has campaigned on the platform of "Elect me, and I will raise your taxes."

But the dilemma, as Mr. Phillips or as Mr. Averitt knows, is that someone's got to pay for the infrastructure that is necessary to serve the tremendous growth of a growing state; and so our choices have become the slow road, which is the tax road that will be built 30 years from now if you're willing to wait, the slow road; or the toll road, which is the road that can be built real fast if you're willing to pay for it; or the no road, which is the road that will never be built because there's just not the money to build it.

The Governor of this state and the legislature of this state have attempted to give us the tools to let you and your city and your county and your region make a decision about which road you want. If you want the slow road, we'll get here eventually. You pay taxes every day. We don't waste very much pennies of it on things that don't matter. Almost all of it goes to roads, public transit, environmental concerns. We will eventually get to your road. It may be 30 years, maybe 35 years, but we will get to your road, and you have that option.

Or you have the option of helping us build a toll road, and we'll get to it real fast, faster than you can imagine, faster than the environmental can be done. Or you can make the decision that many communities have made, and that's no road, don't want any more roads, don't improve my roads, don't expand the lanes, leave me alone. There are communities in Texas that prefer that road.

The Governor and the legislature have given us all of the tools to deliver those three: the slow road, toll road, or no road. All we ask is that you communicate to us honestly about what it is you really want, and then we'll help you get there. And if it's the slow road, we're okay with that, Robert. We don't mind waiting. We've got plenty of places to go build. But if it's the toll road, we've got the tools, and we're ready to rock and roll, and we appreciate the communities that are at least willing to consider it.

Okay. We'll start the business portion. I need to approve -- we need to approve the minutes of our last meeting. Do I have a motion?

MS. ANDRADE: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and a second. All in favor say "aye". All opposed, "no". The minutes are approved.

Yes, Mike? He tells me I can turn the meeting over to you. I've lost my gavel. Most of you in the room know Mr. Skopik. I probably don't need to say it, but I will. We have a bunch of good District Engineers, but amongst the Districts Engineers we have, we have some really outstanding District Engineers, and you are and we are blessed with one of the outstanding District Engineers. Richard, the meeting's yours.

MR. SKOPIK: Thank you, sir. Good morning. Chairman Williamson, Mr. Houghton, Ms. Andrade, Mr. Nichols and Mr. Behrens, we appreciate you all being here this morning and giving us this opportunity to host the meeting. And for the record, I am Richard Skopik, District Engineer for the Waco District of TxDOT and the Waco District employees, the City of Waco and really Central Texans throughout our eight-county area, many of which are here today, as Mr. Williamson so ably recognized and others that are following in their wings to represent all Central Texas today. We welcome you and appreciate the opportunity once again to host your meeting today.

My report to you this morning will be a joint effort of the City of Waco and the District's two (inaudible) planning organizations, the Waco MPO and the Killeen/Temple MPO. I begin with a few statistics from our District. You know, last time I couldn't even recall a few of them; so I did go back and check for a matter of record that what I recall is when I stepped on foot of this District in 1998, and that number has changed a bit. But no, we're not going to go through those figures, but I did want to make just a comment about one of them.

It's interesting to note that -- and this may be somewhat typical of urban areas, some of our size across the state, but over the past five years in terms of daily vehicle mileage traveled each year, that number is increasing at about three-and-a-half percent per year in our district, while population growth and number of registered vehicles is near the two percent range, maybe slightly less, per year, this meaning we're either driving more in this area or there are more people traveling through our district or maybe a little bit of both.

When studying these statistics, you can easily see we're like many other districts in the state with steady increases in traffic growth. As such, our district has to change our thinking in the way we do our job in order to better address the challenges we face and to address this growth. We think we're up to the challenge.

As a result of steady growth through various funding programs that the Commission has approved, our construction letting in this district and our construction work underway has been steadily increasing each year since 1998. Even though some of the increases can be attributed to a few large projects on I-35, the District has really only mildly experienced the impact of I-35's construction as compared to what is expected over the next five to 10 years.

The US-190 corridor between I-35 and Copperas Cove, as well as the I-35 corridor throughout the district, are both experiencing more frequent periods of heavy congestion. With population well exceeding 200,000 within each of our two major urban areas, better coordinated planning is a must in order to succeed in addressing mobility issues. The value of thinking regionally and developing cooperative partnerships among local entities is becoming evident to the leaders in these two areas.

Lastly, Fort Hood continues to dramatically affect our transportation facilities through their activities. Recent and current military deployment efforts as well as new security measures entering and leaving the post create a whole new set of transportation challenges to ease congestion on US-190. The future is unclear as to what to expect in the near future with the new round of base realignments forthcoming. My sense is Fort Hood stands a significant chance to grow even more.

A quick look at our letting volume since 1997 indicates how dramatically we have stepped up to the challenge to produce the design work, acquiring right-of-way and adjusting utilities from about 30 million dollars per year to 150 million dollars a year. We expect to see 200 million over the next two to three years by being in a position to accelerate projects on State Highway 6, the road to the "promised land", and I-35 with bonds and the District Mobility Fund.

Correspondingly, construction volumes are following the same pattern, as you might expect. With an increase in volume by over four times, the challenge lies in realigning our resources coupled with implementing new ways to inspect the work in order to ensure proper quality.

Similar to Department goals, the District's concerns are centered on three things: the safety of the system, preserving our investment, and addressing mobility. It's pretty common for the Department, and I would say that's probably very similar, if not identical, to most districts.

While safety and preservation must continue to be at the top of our list, mobility seems to get the most attention, particularly from the public. The focus of our presentation this morning will target mobility in our two urban areas, taking a look at the accomplishments and future challenges we face in those two growing areas, and then later I will provide you a quick look at the rural area mobility activities we have going on.

First let's look at the Waco MPO area, which now encompasses all of McLennan County. The map indicates in blue the mobility improvements needed on the major urban corridors over the next 20 to 25-year period. Through traditional funding methods under Category 3, for example, only a portion of the real needs can be met. In addition, the earliest most of the projects can be funded will be the year 2015.

The MPO has prioritized these projects, but yet there is almost a 200-million-dollar shortfall, meaning that projects in red cannot be addressed until about 2025 if traditional funding methods are used. That's not saying we're going to do all of it in 2025. That's the earliest we could begin considering some of those in red.

MR. HOUGHTON: Would that fall under the category of the "slow road"?

MR. SKOPIK: Yes, sir, absolutely.

In so doing, the Waco MPO is actually considering the TxDOT Policy Board Subcommittee recommendations to at least take a look at the viability of the toll. This slide indicates the corridors where planning is underway by TxDOT on existing or controlled access facilities that we must look at for possible tolling.

With more details regarding the Waco area mobility issues, I'll turn the podium over to Mr. Larry Groth, the City Manager, who will provide the local perspective on mobility. Larry.

MR. GROTH: Commissioners, welcome again. We do consider it a great honor with you-all being here and giving us an opportunity to host this meeting.

Again I would like to, as just a matter of personal pride, thank you so much for the recognition of Jack Jeffries this morning with the Rohan Award as a former City Manager. I really appreciate that recognition for him.

We do have -- You've recognized two people, but I would like to recognize again Russell Devorsky as the Chair of our MPO Policy Board and Chris Evilia as our MPO Director. They're here with us today.

We know that the needs are tremendous that you-all face each day. We also understand the resource issue, and we are committed to doing whatever it takes, using whatever funding mechanisms that are available to us, to get the needs met in our county, and we do appreciate the opportunity to look at different ways of financing.

We've come before you many times in delegation asking for this or that, and what we'd like to do today, we have our video that we would like to show because it does it a whole lot better than me talking, and it has some nice pictures; so we're going to go through this real quickly.

And this is really more of a "thank you" than asking for things this morning. We want to recognize the fact that we have a wonderful relationship that we've developed with TxDOT locally and with the State over the years, and we're accomplishing great things together. With that in mind, we know that we can tackle the future with the same kind of partnership, and we appreciate what you so; so if we can show the video and encourage you to look through there and pick out those points of cooperation particularly, Commissioners, not just growth, as you mentioned, you'll see all types of transportation methods. Thank you.

[Playing Videotape.]

NARRATOR: "The City of Waco and Texas Department of Transportation have a long history of working together to meet the mobility needs of Central Texas. From the construction of a Federal aided highway system in the 1920s to the development of Interstate 35 to our modern transportation challenges, the City and TxDOT have been effective partners to ensure that people and goods move efficiently and safely through our region.

Both the City of Waco and TxDOT are active participants within the Waco Metropolitan Planning Organization. Through this participation, the MPO has identified the long-term mobility needs of both Waco and McLennan County. With close cooperation between the two agencies, numerous important regional projects have recently been completed or are now under construction.

South Loop 340 is being widened to a four-lane freeway. In addition to being an alternative to I-35 around downtown Waco, Loop 340 carries traffic following State Highway 6 to Bryan-College Station and Houston. With significant traffic increases forecasted, the Waco MPO identified these improvements as the second most important regional priority.

FM 1637, also known as China Spring Road, is the only major thoroughfare through one of the fastest growing sections of Waco. With existing traffic well in excess of the designed capacity, the City has worked extensively with the Waco District to clear any hurdles in widening the facility. Phase 1 was completed last year, and Phase 2 is scheduled for construction in the near future.

Spur 298, also known as Franklin Avenue, is a maze of main lanes and frontage roads originally designed in the 1950s for industrial development. Although vestiges of this development still exist, the area has transitioned into a fast-paced commercial area requiring a different set of roadway designs. Waco and TxDOT have worked with adjacent property owners to design a facility that meets the area's access needs while improving the capacity of the facility. The first phase of construction began earlier this year, with additional phases planned for the next several years.

In 1999 the Transportation Commission identified State Highway 6 and State Highway 31 corridors as high priorities for widening to a divided four-lane facility. Both corridors are on a fast track on work completed. Work on State Highway 6 is part of the Texas Truck System which connects Waco to Houston has either been completed or is under construction. Improvements to State Highway 31, also part of the Texas Truck System connecting Waco to Tyler, should be underway within the next several years.

Another project highlighting the cooperation between TxDOT and our local governments is the extension of FM 2837. The project, which is nearing completion, extends a dead-end Farm to Market Road to provide an important connection between Interstate 35 and the westernmost portion of Waco. This connection is part of a long-term vision of a western loop around Waco connecting several high-growth areas to the south, west and north of Waco. This project could not have occurred without significant contributions of finances and effort on the part of McLennan County.

In 1999 Waco Transit opened the new Intermodal Transfer Center in downtown Waco. This facility serves as a transfer point of Waco Transit (inaudible) and provides inner city bus connections via Greyhound to all parts of Texas. Next-door, the new maintenance and administration facility for Waco Transit is under construction. This state-of-the-art facility will permit Waco Transit to significantly expand operations during the next decade as well as permit Waco Transit to convert to ultra low sulphur diesel fuel. For each facility toll credits approved by the Transportation Commission were used to match the Federal earmarks provided for construction.

Waco has also been awarded funds for several projects under the Statewide Enhancement Program. Three separate phases of the Brazos River were funded through this program which when complete will provide a continuous pedestrian facility between Cameron Park and Baylor University. One phase was completed in 1999, and the second phase is currently under construction. Phase 3 currently under development will extend the Riverwalk through the Baylor campus, thus connecting the university with downtown Waco.

The City also received funds through the enhancement program to refurbish the historic Waco Suspension Bridge. Built in 1873, the bridge was critical to the development of Waco as a regional center of commerce and trade. This facility, Waco's first major transportation project, was developed and financed as a toll bridge.

Waco also received funds through the Safe Routes to Schools program to provide pedestrian facilities in the vicinity of several schools in the economically disadvantaged section of Waco. The approximately 300,000-dollar grant should significantly improve conditions for children walking to school in an area where one in four families have no access to an automobile.

The partnership between the City of Waco and TxDOT has successfully addressed many of the transportation challenges facing this region; however, many future challenges await Central Texas and will require considerable ingenuity, innovation and cooperation. Perhaps the most challenging and important need is addressing the deficiencies of the Interstate 35 corridor.

Through the Baylor campus, thus connecting the university with downtown Waco.

Through adoption of the Statewide Mobility Plan, the Transportation Commission has supported improvements to widen the corridor to six continuous main lanes and continuous one-way frontage roads. These improvements, however, do not address the long-term needs of the corridor, such as the possibility of tolling the additional capacity, the construction of new facilities, and the incorporation of other transportation modes. The City of Waco has been working closely with the Waco District to identify the best methods to address these needs.

Another important regional challenge that remains unfunded is the Business Highway 6 concept through downtown Waco. The only missing lane in this concept is the proposed Loop 574. Loop 574 would directly connect downtown Waco to State Highway 6 as it enters Waco from Houston and Bryan-College Station. With environmental studies complete, an approved schematic design and a substantial portion of the right-of-way donated, utility relocation and construction are the only things remaining to complete this vital link.

A critical part of the Business Highway 6 concept is improving the existing interchange of State Highway 6 and Loop 340. As improvements continue along the remainder of Highway 6 and Loop 340, traffic is expected to increase significantly over the next 20 years. The current interstate will need to accommodate additional traffic.

The Waco MPO and TxDOT have identified a three-phase project that will define the necessary capacity to handle the projected traffic. Phase 1, however, is not scheduled until the year 2015 and Phase 2 not until 2025. Phase 3 remains unfunded. The City and the MPO will be working with TxDOT to identify innovative methods to accelerate development of the third most important regional priority within metropolitan Waco.

Within the next several years Waco Transit will be looking to replace their fixed route bus fleet. The current fleet is 12 years old and has reached the end of its useful life. Although Federal funds are anticipated to cover much of the cost, the City can't afford to cover the entire (inaudible) mass at once. They anticipate requesting a toll bridge to help meet some of its mass requirements.

Although much progress has occurred in developing the Brazos Riverwalk, much of it through the Transportation Enhancement Program, the sections completed or under development only represent about one-third of the ultimate corridor. McLennan Community College, the City's softball, tennis and aquatic facilities, the Heart of Texas Soccer Complex, Cameron Park East, and the Lake Waco Dam Hike and Bike Trail presently have no pedestrian connection. To provide these important connections, Waco will be pursuing additional enhancement funds to further extend the Brazos Riverwalk.

The population in Texas is anticipated to double within the next 30 years. With much of this growth occurring in the Dallas-San Antonio corridor, Waco is in the middle of one of the most substantial transportation challenges facing our country. With the successful partnership developed between the City of Waco, TxDOT and the Waco MPO, we're confident we can meet many of these challenges confronting our nation."

[End of Video Presentation.]

MR. GROTH: Okay. Continuing with our look at urban mobility issues, I turn my focus on the Killeen/Temple MPO area. The map before you indicates the mobility improvements needed on the major urban corridors over the next 20 to 25-year period.

You can see that the entire portion of the US-190 corridor within the MPO has identified expansion needs. This four-lane freeway has similar traffic problems to I-35 but without the high-volume truck traffic. Much like the Waco area, you can see the areas of red along these identifying corridors that cannot be funded until after 2025 if traditional funding methods are used. These areas amount to a shortfall of over -- well over 100 million dollars.

The next slide indicates those corridors the District must look at in terms of toll fees building. Planning work is already ongoing on portions of these access facilities. In terms of tolling, Copperas Cove is working with the District, as well as Coryell and Lampasas County officials, to support exploring toll alternatives as a possible way to advance the US-190 relief route.

A conceptual toll analysis was completed last fall indicating that tolls would at least pay for operations and maintenance. An intermediate toll analysis is being performed at the present time. Likewise, Temple approved TxDOT moving forward with the conceptual toll analysis for Northwest Loop 363. Local officials plan to assemble the work route, to review the details of the study with TxDOT, and become better informed on the formation of a Regional Mobility Authority, once again taking a look at what the alternatives may be in terms of the schedule.

The Loop study is analyzing various scenarios, including the effects on the route with and without improvements to I-35 and with and without the Trans-Texas Corridor in place. This particular study is quite a bit more complex than some because of the various alternatives and "what if's", as it really will serve as a parallel to I-35 at least in that portion of Temple, the Temple section of I-35.

With more details regarding the Killeen/Temple area mobility issues, here is Mary Gauer, Mayor of Harker Heights, who also serves as the Chair of the Killeen/Temple MPO Policy Board. Mary.

MS. GAUER: Welcome to Central Texas. Thanks to each of you for allowing the Killeen/Temple local transportation study, locally known as K-TUTS, to come before you with our transportation project. My name, as he stated, is Mary Gauer, and I am the Mayor of the City of Harker Heights and Chair of the K-TUTS Quality Board. And I've had the pleasure of meeting a few of you in Austin and, sir, when you came to visit us at Fort Hood, our crown jewel.

Several of our region's elected officials and appointed officials are also present today. In addition to those who were introduced, how about the rest of you stand and be recognized, or at least wave your hands, please, everyone from K-TUTS. They're very shy.

K-TUTS covers an area of 543 square miles in Bell, Coryell and Lampasas Counties. We encompass 11 cities, the five largest being Killeen, Temple, Copperas Cove, Harker Heights and Belton. Our region is the fifth largest in the state, with a population of 277,000, more or less. And by the way, that's a 33-percent increase since 1998 when I was first elected Mayor.

As we continue to grow, our region works cohesively to solve transportation issues throughout our entire region. TxDOT and the Transportation Commission have been staunch supporters and advisors as we move towards our regional goals. We appreciate your cooperation and your confidence in our ability to plan our mutual transportation needs in line with the needs and resources of the state and the needs of our nation.

It is my privilege to invite Jim Reed, our K-TUTS MPO Director, to give you an overview of our projects and goals. And please feel free to stop us at any time as we move through our presentation. Our MPO projects are vital to us, to Texas, and to our nation. Here's Jim.

MR. REED: Commissioners, we're honored to have you in Central Texas, and we welcome you to what we think is one of the largest growth areas in the state, one of the areas that is facing transportation issues not unlike the rest of the state.

We have some unique projects that we'd like to highlight for you very briefly, and we'll be glad to answer any of your questions on any of our projects and the partnership that we honor and have with TxDOT at this time.

The first project we'd like to talk to you about a little bit is Loop 363. In keeping with some of the challenges that the Commissioner talked about as far as leveraging private and public dollars together, Loop 363 is a project that runs through the City of Temple. It is an alternate to US-190, and is currently working on an expansion project with some toll liability on the northwest corridor and is also a very strong partnership on a frontage road realignment and realigning all of those frontage roads from one-way carrying and one-way work throughout the city.

That Loop 363 project, the toll liability study is well underway and is a very complicated study, and we appreciate the partnership that we have with the Commission on working through that.

A second project we'd like to highlight is the State Highway 36 bridge project. It currently is approximately halfway complete. We anticipate completion of that bridge project within the next 11 months. That bridge -- the existing bridge has been demolished and a new bridge going up in its place. This is a northern gateway to the K-TUTS area and State Highway 36 coming in from our northern counties and coming down in the urbanized corridor.

This has been a very unique project for us in that it's the major bridge over Lake Belton in the north. The existing bridge had no shoulders and was only two lanes and when completed will have a modern design -- up to modern design standard bridge project with four complete lanes and all of the proper shouldering. This has been a very interesting project to work for -- to work through for the last several years with TxDOT.

The State Highway 195 project is vital to the growth of Central Texas as a four-phase project currently in its first phase of construction to widen that two-lane facility that goes from our southern border of the Killeen and Fort Hood area down towards Georgetown. The project was funded by a legislative set-aside back in 1995, and nine years later I would say, Commissioners, this is definitely a "slow road" project, but we are grateful for the progress that has been made. We are now 30 percent complete on that project, and it is very vital to the next two projects that link to it that I would draw your attention to.

The State Highway 195 comes into the southern part of K-TUTS, again linking it to I-35 back in Georgetown. It is used heavily by Fort Hood soldiers, used heavily by the Fort Hood community and Killeen community as they enter into the urbanized area from the south. It also ties to the State Highway 201 project, which we're very proud that the Commission chose to fund to support the Killeen -- the new Killeen Regional Airport that is a joint use airport project with Fort Hood that I know many of you have heard reports from.

We're proud to say that this project began in 2002, and I would say this is definitely the "fast road" project. The City did a significant amount of the design work and right-of-way work in partnership with TxDOT, and as a result, that project that was started in 2002 is ready to drive on today; and so we appreciate the commitment of the Commission to making that project a reality. It was a unique partnership between the City, TxDOT and Fort Hood, and it serves our new Regional Airport that I'd like to highlight next for you.

This airport project has been called the most significant economic development project in Central Texas since Fort Hood came to this area. The airport will open in the third quarter of this year. It will be fully capable of landing regional jet service and is a tremendous economic development engine for Central Texas.

It is projected that 824 new jobs and over 2.8 billion dollars of impact will be realized from this project within the next 10 years, and TxDOT's partnership and the commitment that you as the Commission made to the roads servicing this project are vitally important to the success of this project, and we thank you again.

Finally, we'd like to talk a little bit about the same project that we seem to come to many times, and that's I-35. I-35 is vitally important to Waco, it's vitally important to K-TUTS, but we also believe it's also vitally important to not only Central Texas but Texas and the nation.

We would suggest to you that what is interesting about this project is that it can, in essence, hold hostage every other I-35 dollar that is spent in this nation. If we have a congestion issue, on our two-lane section if we have one of the many accidents that we've experienced, we see delays that are significant that impact the entire corridor.

Billions of dollars can be spent in Dallas, can be spent in Austin, but if the weakest link is in Central Texas, then those dollars are held hostage when those roadways shut down and mobility is impacted; so we encourage your continued growth on I-35 and our continued support of alternates to I-35, and that brings us to the Trans-Texas Corridor.

We just wanted to thank you on behalf of the residents of Temple, Texas for taking what we think is a very bold initiative and partnership with the Governor. We're partnering with TxDOT on the connection from this corridor back to the urban centers that it will service. We believe this model of leveraging public and private funding has been embraced by every member within the K-TUTS body. As a result, we're investigating toll projects in three projects of significance in our region, and we are currently investigating the formation of an RMA in hopes of one day coming before you for recognition and approval of that RMA concept.

Commissioners, you once told us at a delegation presentation to you that TxDOT is open for business. We're here today to tell you that we embrace that concept and are here to tell you that Central Texas is open for business, as well. We are leveraging our private funding, we are leveraging public funding from our cities and counties with TxDOT dollars to move on that fast road that you spoke of. And we appreciate the opportunity to appear before you and to thank you for the partnership that we so much value in Central Texas.

With that, I'll turn that back over to Mayor Gauer or to Richard Skopik, whoever is appropriate.

Thank you for being in Central Texas.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.

MR. SKOPIK: We're going to move for just a moment to our district's rural corridor, and I think both the Waco MPO and the Killeen/Temple MPO touched on all three of them that I was going to touch on. And I knew that, but one thing I will say, and as Ken brings up the PowerPoint, both State Highway 31 which runs from Waco to Corsicana and our portion is about half that length between Waco and Corsicana just north of Hubbard, and we touch Bill Hale's District at the Navarro-Hill County line, and as Waco mentioned, we have much planning work underway.

We have not gotten any segments of our portion, which is about 20 miles -- we do not have any of it under construction, but it is all in sync with a grand plan of bringing in still under the time frames, Commissioner Nichols, that we committed to several years ago.

One of the things that is not a matter of excuses, but we really have had some ... what I'm going to say -- or we have met more than our expected share of challenges trying to work out the various alternatives that we could reach some sort of consensus on to figure out how to get through or around or whatever it would take to get -- make a connection through Hubbard, and I think we have found that; and so I feel confident we are moving forward.

In fact, we are going to move forward with a pretty substantially large project of road construction. We have not accelerated it yet, but we are contemplating that, which will get us all the way almost to Hubbard, and then we'll have to take a little bit more time to actually finish up the Hubbard segment, but we will get the majority of the corridor to a full four-lane divided status as we're all committed to.

The other corridor, State Highway 6 that the Waco MPO mentioned, certainly it is complete, virtually complete through McLennan County. We still have segments remaining in Falls County we just let, and the Commission subsequently approved the contract in March, a sizeable contract to close the gap from the McLennan County line all the way to the south side of Marlin; so we have one remaining segment left, and that will take us from Marlin to the Bryan District line. And we have committed to accelerate that project in order to possibly finance that with bonds if you and the administration deem that appropriate.

Another rural corridor, and the Killeen -- and Bill just mentioned that, is State Highway 195. I think it's pretty well said there's been a lot of effort put into that. The Waco District, if you'll recall, took the lead on the entire corridor. Back in 1999 we took the lead to develop that entire corridor, one district. I had two districts really that were to expedite the project and provide one focal point in terms of TxDOT to all folks, particularly Fort Hood and interested legislative officials that -- there were a lot of issues related to that corridor, and it seems to have quieted down quite a bit. There's a lot of activity, a lot of work, we've got completed work, and folks can see that we mean business and we are doing all we can with the funds that are available.

Moving to our last major rural corridor, and there again Mr. Reed so ably discussed I-35, it takes a little explanation to convince folks that this corridor is of statewide as well as regional and local interest. Our planning, of course, to remind some of you, began in 1999 on this corridor. It's not that old. We really did not have anything running at all on our 94-mile segment between the Williamson County Line and the I-35 split north of Hillsboro, but since then we've settled on a plan for the most part, and that plan is the first to address safety.

In so doing, you approved the contract that we let in December to complete the various gaps in barriers.

Work is underway in the Salado area in southern Bell County. That is where the contractor has begun work and will make his way filling in the gaps between there and Hillsboro. And my goal is to have all of those barriers in place prior to the Thanksgiving rush, and that's a lofty goal, but I think the Area Engineer is here in the audience, and I'm sure he's already heard this, but he's heard my commitment to you; so that will make it maybe even a little better.

In terms of expanding to six lanes, our plan in the rural areas is to use the center median to add a fast unit for cars (inaudible) in the existing right-of-way. Within those other areas we're going to utilize the same approach, but we're going to consider the long-term needs for addressing local mobility and traffic needs, not regional or statewide needs.

One other point on the I-35 corridor in our plan is to address the rest area needs for the corridor link between Austin and the Dallas/Fort Worth area. That plan provides for replacing the rest area at Salado and constructing a new location in Hill County near Hillsboro.

The left photo -- we've gotten just a little bit out of sequence here, but the left photo just reinforces how we're addressing this immediate safety concern on I-35 with the installation of concrete traffic barrier near the shoulder on one of the two roadways, depending on what direction we're going and which side we feel is best at least for this interim safety measure.

The other problem kind of goes without saying. Any time -- it's unfortunately what happens almost routinely along the corridor. It doesn't matter if it's rural or urban. This happens to be a rural segment of the corridor where this picture was taken. When an incident causes freeway lanes to -- main lanes to be closed from one direction or both, sometimes both, this is what happens. And it kind of is a no-brainer at this day in time, but I guess this picture, one thing I always point out for folks that I'm trying to convince about one-way frontage roads when we get to a corridor like this that has the amount of congestion, the amount of volume that we're dealing with, it's an illustration of why engineers want to see one-way frontage roads. This would help certainly in this kind of congestion right here if we could have two of the lanes at least trying to move some of that traffic.

Although the next map may be difficult to follow and it's not intended to try to read it, but it is the District's planning document to provide an orderly sequence of projects with alternating terms of letting, to provide some relief to drivers with continuous construction activities on I-35. Even though we're committed to accelerating segments in Bell and Hill Counties in 2005 and 2006, the overall plan for expansion to six lanes is not projected to be complete until about 2015.

Although we hope to let the last project in 2010-2011, these are big projects we're trying to let and build, and even with accelerated techniques it's still going to take us three to four years on the type of projects that we're looking at.

I've also included along with the I-35 discussion an artist's rendition of two rest areas that I mentioned for the I-35 corridor, the top one for Salado and the bottom one for Hill County. I will say that the Salado one is off the drawing board, and actually we are in the line to put it into the letting. We are waiting on some major right-of-way issues that we're tackling. Mainly it's really utility driven type issues that we're trying to deal with, a major pipeline serving water from, I guess, the Belton area to Georgetown; and so we've got to get that out of the way because one of these rest areas is right on top of it right now.

In terms of challenges for the District, there are many. I'm not going to go through these at this point. They're pretty typical that you're going to see throughout the Department, anything from realigning the organization to being more efficient to issues related to educating the public on tolls and better jobs and educating the public and informing the public on anything we're doing, whether it be public meetings, public hearings, step out of the box and look at more conventional ways, think of -- a lot of our projects and products, think of them more in a marketing sense rather than meeting some minimum requirement. And I think we've tried to do that pretty well in the Waco District, and I think we're going to see us step out even more as we target some of these challenges and goals for the District.

I will move to my last point, and that has to do with some District initiatives. Ken, if you'll advance that. We've got two or three things that we've been doing that you may or may not have heard about. This first one has to do with a term called "perpetual pavement", and I don't intend to give you a one-on-one pavement design test here, but what the Waco District did, and this actually started on Mr. Pickett's watch, and I've tried to do my best to carry it through, and we did get a project done; but the Waco District was the first district to really work with the construction industry, the asphalt pavement experts at the state and national level and university pavement researchers to develop a new asphalt pavement structure.

The intent of the District was to design a pavement structure that would be equivalent to concrete pavement, particularly in terms of embankments. It would match up against concrete and be a design that would be intended for a heavy-duty heavy-volume surface much like what we have on I-35.

The result of that endeavor plus development of stone-on-stone type of asphalt pavement specifications at the state level provided for inclusion of the full-depth asphalt pavement design that we jointly developed with industry and academia into an I-35 reconstruction project, expansion project north of Waco in Lacy-Lakeview. The lower left photo shows that. That project was recently completed.

What you see in this slide on the top left is a close-up of the surface. The most noticeable element, of course, of any design is usually the riding surface, and this particular riding surface is termed as a PFC. That's a TxDOT acronym, of course. In looking at the definition of that, it is a porous friction course. That's about as deep as I'm going to get, but the bottom line is this surface produces a very quiet ride, it's very noticed by the public, and it minimizes tire spray in wet weather, and you can readily notice that. I can give you some excellent video to show and illustrate that, but the best illustration is just drive it when we've got a wet period. These two things become an advantage not only to the safety but to the environment in terms of noise.

Two other closing points that I want to make in terms of initiatives. Ken, if you'll advance that. We have -- There was a mention of this in the Killeen/Temple presentation a few minutes ago. This is the State Highway 36 bridge, the biggest -- largest construction project in terms of a bridge replacement that we've undertaken in many years in the District working over 30 or 40 foot of water, a reservoir -- drinking water reservoir controlled by the Corps of Engineers, a lot of restrictions, a lot of rules and regulations, but we were able to get this project pretty much moved through, and really it was attributed to the fine cooperation between our staff, the Environmental Affairs Division, as well as the local Corps group.

All of our folks, including the Division, worked so closely hand in hand to develop this project, it went off pretty much without a hitch. I know the staff would probably say that's not quite right, but it really was smooth because we didn't have to delay the project because of those issues. I know they had to work down to the wire, but normally those kinds of things that we have to take a month or two and delay it we did not on this project.

One of the other things that really helped us was this District Initiative. And I can't take all of the credit, the District cannot. We have to give a lot of that credit to the Bridge Division. Marilou's group came to the challenge. We wanted to experiment with the precast bent cap system. The Houston District in a section through downtown Houston did a version of this, but this was kind of a step up.

Actually, this had to be somewhat of a research project because of the size and magnitude of the bent cap. That's the supporting structure that sits on top of the columns, and it's a portion of the structure between the columns and the riding surface, the beams and the girders. And the magnitude of this cap was such that we had never undertaken a precast type of a design under our wing and never really had one to design or look at to see how it would perform; so this is what they went into for several reasons because we needed to minimize the work that we were doing over the water, not only from an environmental standpoint but also from a safety standpoint, being we were not only about 30 to 40-foot down below the water surface, but we were about that same amount above the water surface.

And if you'll go through the next series of slides, I'm just going to take you through this system very, very quickly. These bent caps -- this is a bent cap. It doesn't look that large sitting on that trailer, but it is, in fact, probably in the neighborhood of about 45 feet wide or long. And these bent caps were produced off site, actually in San Antonio, Texas at a fabricator and hauled to Bell County, and there's about 60-some-odd of these.

Ken, if you'll just go through the process. You're getting a little bit ahead of me, but ... [Laughter.] They get to the water, and folks, check them out. We keep going. They're transported out, and it's really almost this fast. It really is. I mean keep going. I need to run this thing. We're almost there. Keep on going. The cap is lifted up, and one more and we're there. And if everything lines up, it is that simple.

It's worked -- this portion of the project has worked beautifully. There's been a lot of effort put into it, but we did all of this for one reason, and that's the next slide, and that is to get ready for what we're going to try to do on I-35.

We've talked a lot about I-35 and all of the issues that we have, and we've tried to do as much work as we can. We can build a road off to the side somewhere and all of a sudden put it in place overnight while everybody's pretty much in bed except the trucks, and they get a little notice ahead of time so they might stay away for at least a day or two. If we could do that with a bridge, and we think we're going to be able to get real close, instead of building a bridge in a conventional manner in a matter of months, I think that we're going to be able to do it in a matter of days, if not a week or two, less than a month from start to finish. And if we can pull that off, that's where we're headed.

That was the reason to kind of get started with at least the cap part of the bridge element, and we're going to put this whole thing together in a project that we hope to let this summer in August, and it will be just not far down the road, kind of a guinea pig project. It will be a revamp of the Interstate-35 - South Loop 340 interchange here south of Waco.

So those are a few of the things that we're doing. We do appreciate your time here today, taking the time out of your schedules to not only come to Waco to host the meeting, but giving us the opportunity to do this. And lastly, I want to thank all of the employees of the Waco District. Could you please stand up for me, please? All of the work ... [Applause.] And last, but certainly not least, to the City of Waco, Larry, I think we made it happen, and we appreciate your work and cooperation.

With that, Mr. Williamson, I'll turn it back over to you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, great job. Great job, but we're not through with you.

Okay, Commissioners. You've got the best that the Waco District's got to offer. Do you have questions for Mr. Skopik, comments? Ted?

MR. HOUGHTON: How big is the economic impact of Fort Hood on this issue in dollars? Does anybody know?

MR. SKOPIK: The question being the effect that Fort Hood has on the -- in terms of impact economically on the region?

MR. HOUGHTON: Right.

MR. SKOPIK: I'm getting a number of three billion, but I did not have a feel for that number. I know when I talked to --

MS. GAUER: It's four --

MR. SKOPIK: Four? Okay.

MS. GAUER: -- billion.

MR. SKOPIK: Four billion.

MR. HOUGHTON: Are they actively involved in the MPO's?

MR. SKOPIK: Not directly. They're not on the Policy Board. We do -- I thought we had at one time a member or two on the Technical Committee, but they have not been involved much since we've deployed to Iraq and before that for Desert Storm --

MR. HOUGHTON: From a planning standpoint of the infrastructure needed from their mission statement and a proposed expansion of that mission statement on the system, are they involved as to their needs to meet that mission?

MR. SKOPIK: Yes, sir. That's how -- by being on the Technical Committee, on the MPO's Technical Committee, that is the base level group to produce recommendations to the Policy Board as to not only the short-term but the long-term needs of the region in terms of transportation.

And I know in addition to that, not only the planning needs, but our staff, particularly our Director of Traffic Operations, Larry Colclasure, has well established contacts because particularly I mentioned in my presentation earlier about the issues that we had confident that you will be successful in meeting the challenges.

Richard, I was glad to see rest areas on your list. I'll remind you to keep them family friendly and reflective of the region, but thank you very much, and I look forward to working with you.

MR. NICHOLS: Richard, a very good presentation, and you covered all of the bases there. Obviously, the Waco District is very progressive, and it looks like your numbers have been going up, and we want to make sure the numbers continue to go up.

And I know particularly from some of the comments from yesterday in meeting with some of the people from the community, the biggest question and most unusual thing that's in front of them has to do with tolls and some of the other tools, and I know they'll be going over a period of months or next year having to weigh all of those things.

And if it would be helpful to you or some of them, I think you might even get one or more of the folks to volunteer to come to the area at some time and put them all together and talk about and show some of the things that we see why the legislature and Governor are heading that way and put it in a different light, look at it a different way. It might be helpful. I would certainly volunteer to do that.

MR. SKOPIK: Appreciate that, appreciate the offer, and I'm sure I will be taking you up on it if I can convince some takers. I'm kind of getting some head shakes.

MR. NICHOLS: Were they shaking "no" --

MR. SKOPIK: Yes --

MR. NICHOLS: -- or "yes"?

MR. SKOPIK: -- as I looked at one.

MR. HOUGHTON: Well, any time you have the need, Richard, I invited Mr. Nichols to El Paso to make a presentation to the MPO, and as Commissioner Nichols has aptly done, he has personalized the issues to communities, what it really means, what's happening, what's going to happen. And as Chairman Williams said, tolls roads, no roads or slow roads, you've got a choice and here are your choices. And we did that to the Executive Committee of the MPO and to the military base, Fort Bliss, and it was like a deer in the headlights when they saw what's facing communities if you don't do anything, continue to slice and dice.

But I will advocate one other way of disseminating information is we also went after that meeting to the editorial board of "The El Paso Times", and they turned 180 degrees as to the issues and again personalized to the region, to the area, and I would stand ready as Mr. Nichols would take it on the road; we're going to take our act on the road, and we won't charge much for it, but it's a great song and dance. And Hope and I will be in San Antonio in a couple of weeks, but it's got to be personalized to the region as to the daunting tasks that face us, both financially and technically.

MR. SKOPIK: Appreciate that.

MR. HOUGHTON: You're very welcome.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Richard, thank you. It was a good presentation. I just want to echo what the other Commissioners said. We are all -- every one of the Commission members have had some experience in politics and government service prior to the Commission. We're not insensitive to the difficulties that County Judge Burrows and mayors and House members and Senate members -- we're not insensitive to the difficulties each of those men and women face in talking to their community about tolls in Texas, and we understand that, but we operate from this basis: We have a Governor who understands this problem needs to be solved one way or the other, and it's not popular sometimes to advance ideas to solve problems. And I guess it would be safe to say we're seeing that in the legislature right now, but at least he has the courage to advance ideas.

If we were going to increase our gasoline tax, as so many people always say we ought to do, we would have done that 15 years ago; so for 15 years while I was in the legislature we waited for a majority to develop support for raising the gasoline taxes. And guess what? It ain't raised.

Meanwhile the roads get older, more people move to Texas, the problems get worse, and finally we have a Governor that looks around and says "We've got to do something. And if it's not going to be gas taxes, then it's going to be toll roads. That's what we're going to do. And we're not going to force any community to build them. If you don't want them in Laredo, don't build them. If you don't want them in Waco, don't build them. If you don't want them in El Paso, don't build them. But no longer say that you don't have an alternative. We've got a way to address the problem now if communities want to do that."

No one's fooling themselves. You don't see us with bells on dancing about how we want to give you toll roads. We all realize that it's painful, but it's the slow road, it's the toll road, or it's the no road, straight out. Those are our choices. That's kind of the way it is in life.

Good presentation. We look forward to that first toll road project.

We're going to take a seven-and-a-half-minute break. [Laughter.] We have -- our agenda is very full. We have a lot of statewide issues.

(Recess taken from 10:35 to 10:56 a.m.).

MR. WILLIAMSON: I noticed earlier in the first phase of our meeting one of our very good friends neglected to put his cell phone on silent; so I'll remind everybody once again to please show some respect by putting your phones and personal communication devices on silent mode. It's very disruptive to have those go off.

Mike, before I turn the agenda over to you I would like to bring to the audience's attention the American Traffic Safety Services Association Work Zone Safety Memorial that is on display in the lobby of the Convention Center. I hope that each of you will take a moment to view the memorial that honors those who have died in work zone accidents. The memorial includes not just highway workers but motorists and children and first responders such as law enforcement officers and emergency medical personnel.

Since the 1930s when the Department started keeping records of their employees who were killed in the line of duty, 268 employees of our department have paid the ultimate sacrifice while serving the public. Very few people know that we've lost that many men and women. Of the names on the memorial there is one TxDOT employee, Gregory Jares, who died here in Waco in October of 2001 while setting barricades on State Highway 6.

The Commission would like to recognize the work that ATSSA is doing to make everyone aware of the importance of work zone safety and the incredibly dangerous nature of the work many of our employees are involved with every day. I hope you have a chance to view the memorial before they pack it up until their next stop on a nationwide tour.

Mike, I noticed that there were two routine minute orders where we will be approving donations from the Association of General Contractors along with the American Traffic Safety Services Association. We're very grateful for these donations and for this public service campaign aimed at reducing highway work zone accidents and fatalities. I would like to take the prerogative of the Chair and move those items up in the agenda to be considered at this time.

MR. BEHRENS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you mentioned, these donations are very important to help bring public attention to work zone hazards that are out there when we or the contractors are trying to do work on our transportation system. And more awareness by the people that are driving through these work zones will, of course, help protect the contractors' employees as well as our employees that are out there.

And both of these minute orders reflect an outstanding commitment from two of our transportation partners that we work with, the AGC and also ATSSA. At this time I would like to ask Carlos Lopez to come forward and present these two minute orders. They'll be on the agenda, Minute Orders 11(a)(2) and 11(a)(3). And at this time I'll turn it over to Carlos.

MR. LOPEZ: Thank you, Mike. Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Carlos Lopez. I'm Director of the Traffic Operations Division.

The minute order that's before you is for our department to accept donations from the American Traffic Safety Services Association and the Associated General Contractors of Texas that participate in the statewide public information campaign promoting work on safety.

With recent lettings surpassing 3 billion dollars annually and all of the funding mechanisms that are given to us by the legislature, the common thread is that motorists are going to see more and more work zones. We believe that it's important to educate the public about navigating through work zones safely, and we have a sample TV spot that we used in the mid-nineties that might give you an example of what a new work zone site might look like; so with that I'd like to go ahead and roll the tape.

[Playing Videotape.]

NARRATOR: "Most of us feel pretty safe while we're at our work, but every year highway and utility workers are injured or killed on the job. That's because drivers aren't careful and don't slow down when they approach work zones. Think about it. How would you like it if someone drove through your workplace at 65 miles an hour? Work zone employees are just doing their job. Give us a break. It's our lives."

[End of Video Presentation.]

MR. WILLIAMSON: That's great.

MR. LOPEZ: I think that brings it home. You heard a reference to 65 miles per hour. We do have a statewide limit of 70; so we're going to freshen it up a little bit, and hopefully by the August time frame we'll be seeing some commercials in all of the different areas of Texas.

MR. WILLIAMSON: If you do that enough, that will compete with "Don't Mess with Texas". That is great. That's a good ad.

MR. LOPEZ: Thank you. Both ATSSA and AGC

represent a number of companies involving the many aspects of highway construction and maintenance. The organizations have a substantial interest in improving safety in work zones for their members and the traveling public. We appreciate AGC's and ATSSA's involvement and participation and recommend approval of these minute orders.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We're going to take the minute orders singularly, Members. Minute Order 11(a)(2) ... Is that correct, Mike?

MR. BEHRENS: That's correct.

MR. WILLIAMSON: ... is before you. Do I have a motion?

MS. ANDRADE: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Do I have a second?

MR. HOUGHTON: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I've got a motion and a second. All in favor will signify by saying "aye". Opposed, "no". Motion carries.

Minute Order 11(a)(3) concerns the American Traffic Safety Services Association, and we have with us today Dane Alsabrook. Dane.

The entire Commission will speak to you in a moment, but let me say at the outset how much we appreciate your work on this.

MR. ALSABROOK: Thank you, Mr. Commissioner, Mr. Behrens and my fellow friends with TxDOT that I've had the privilege of working with over the years. My name is Dane Alsabrook. I am a board member of ATSSA, and I'm also a subcontractor member of the AGC of Texas.

Through our partnership with TxDOT in the new work zone safety campaign, we gladly support the upcoming efforts to kick off this campaign statewide in August. Though equipment, training and implementation have improved greatly this last decade, the work zone fatality rate continues to rise at 190 Texans dead in 2002 from 140 in 2001. This is a statistic we would rather be last than first.

We cannot accept any loss of life of motorists, pedestrians, enforcement officers or work zone workers. We must raise awareness that work zones are not unnecessary aggravations. Those work areas are designed specifically for the public's benefit and quality of life.

Texas highways are vital to our economy, security and mobility. These work zone projects protect our most valuable assets, men like Waco District's Gregory Jeff Jares, DIJ Construction's Bob Phillips, (inaudible) Jose Hernandez and (inaudible), whose young lives were tragically shortened while trying to improve Texas roads. Just a split second of driver distractions and unsafe speed changed a normal workday into unfulfilled dreams for the families, friends and co-workers who will never forget, and neither will we. We hope their value and their (inaudible) will be better recognized when the motoring public can sense what it is like to work within inches of 70-mile-per-hour traffic both day and night.

In a day when bravery and facing danger is recognized for those fighting for our way of life dressed in camos, we must also revere and protect those who are working to preserve our way of life that are dressed in reflective orange and yellow-green.

In closing, we thank TxDOT for proposing this much needed campaign, and we applaud the Commission for allocating precious limited funding for our cause of safer roads that truly saves lives. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members of the Commission, questions or comments? Thank you, Dane. We appreciate you, and we appreciate your comments.

Members, before you is Item 11(a)(3) to acknowledge a donation from the ATSSA. Do I have a motion?

MR. HOUGHTON: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Do I have a second?

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: All in favor will signify by saying "aye". All opposed, "no". Motion carries.

Mike, let's return to the agenda.

MR. HOUGHTON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We'll go to Agenda Item Number 2, which is on public transportation. And we have a minute order to award the discretionary and flexible funds to urban and rural transportation operations, and Sue Bryant will speak on that.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you, Mr. Behrens, and good morning, Commissioners. My name is Susan Bryant, and I'm Director of the Public Transportation Division.

The minute order for your consideration covers the last year of a four-year program for fiscal years 2001 through 2004 to provide funding to purchase public transportation replacement vehicles for both small urban and rural transit systems. The program was established in 2001 by minute order 108.412 and approved flexing funds from the surface transportation program through the minute order approved flexing 5 million dollars each year.

At the Commission's direction, all of the vehicles that will be purchased under this program will be alternatively fueled and will be wheelchair accessible. Under this program so far, 253 vehicles have been replaced in the state, and at least 87 vehicles are expected to be replaced with approval of this new order, and your consideration is appreciated.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. Members, the floor is open for questions.

MR. NICHOLS: This is an issue that has statewide significance, and I know there's been a lot of work by a lot of people over an extended period of time. I think it might be helpful if you would back up maybe a year or 18 months and kind of go through some of the public hearings around the state that the Department and the Commission had and kind of all the way up to the time you got here and some of that work that's been done to try to touch on these areas.

MS. BRYANT: Okay. Very briefly, then, what we're asking about touches upon all of the transportation issues as to the whole series of public meetings. We have called them "listening sessions" because we -- TxDOT comes to listen, and we have heard from the transportation providers around the state. This will be -- notes will also be included because you have some rules to be considered this morning, also.

And one -- in addition to the six listening

sessions that we've held, we also held one video listening session that was broadcast from Austin by -- it addressed or covered all 25 districts of the TxDOT service area; so it actually covered the entire state of Texas. We received many, many comments about -- I think the first and foremost comment was very consistent, regardless of what part of the country the person or what part of the state the person was talking from, and that is that the need in the state for public transportation is extremely great and that we all together need to look at many alternatives for resources. The State alone cannot provide the answer alone, and we need to work very much in partnership.

Every part of the state brought its own perspective, whether it was El Paso and the distances that must be covered, whether it was the Valley and the increase in population and the need of the citizens there, or East Texas and the needs that need to be met there, or North Texas and the more populated areas in terms of moving people where they need to go.

That's a very quick summary, and if I can address any more items on that, I'd glad to.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay. This particular issue that's in the minute order gets into the replacement part, and a few more items down we're going to get into the statewide funding.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: And I had asked you a question by e-mail which I'm going to ask you publicly, and that is this action as being a replacement, it's not necessarily dependent on this other funding?

MS. BRYANT: That's correct.

MR. NICHOLS: Because I have a question concerning this other point, and your answer was ...

MS. BRYANT: The answer is, first of all, these are very great programs, but the anticipation in considering the formula of funds is that there will not be any significant at least decline in service so that the need for replacement vehicles will not change. The replacement vehicles are those that need to be taken out of service. They are the older vehicles, and it is to upgrade the entire fleet across the state.

MR. NICHOLS: That's all.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Any other questions, Members, on this matter? Do I have a motion?

MR. HOUGHTON: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Do I have a second?

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor will signify by saying "aye".

Opposed, "no". Motion carried.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you.

MR. BEHRENS: We'll go to Item Number 3, which is our proposed rules for (inaudible), Agenda Item 3(a)(1) concerning our rules for turnpike projects. It allows for private involvement in turnpike projects. Mr. Phil Russell.

MR. RUSSELL: Thanks, Mike. Good morning, Commissioners. For the record, I'm Phillip Russell, Director of the Turnpike Division.

The minute order before you would propose the adoption of Amendment to Section 27, which describes the requirements for alternate forms of security for those private entities entering into a competency development agreement with the Department. The ultimate form of security would take the shape or form of cashiers checks, bonds or notes, letters of credit, and guarantees.

These ultimate forms of security will, of course, be in addition to our normal performance and payment funds, and it really is due to the current conditions in the surety bond market which are making bonding more difficult. And to the extent that bonds in excess of 250- or 300 million dollars would apply, it really makes it impossible to get bonds at that amount; so this minute order would allow us to -- as we propose, these rules would allow us to have a little more flexibility to ensure the Department and the State is made whole in case of a default or other problems with our developers.

I'll be happy to address any questions you might have.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Questions, Members?

Do I have a motion?

MR. HOUGHTON: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Second?

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: All in favor will signify by saying "aye". All opposed, "no". Motion carries.

MR. RUSSELL: Thank you, Commissioners.

MR. BEHRENS: Minute Order 3(1)(2) is regarding rules that deal with the State Formula Program and Discretionary Program and also the Section 5311 Grant Program. Sue.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you again, Mr. Behrens. And good morning again, Commissioners. For the record, my name is Susan Bryant, and I'm Director of the Public Transportation Division.

For your consideration this morning, our proposed public transportation funding formula is regarding rules for State funding for small urban transportation systems, State funding for rural transportation systems, and Federal funding for rural public transportation systems.

Before I highlight the proposed rules, I would like to recognize the members of the Public Transportation Advisory Committee that worked very, very hard to reach the consensus that you have before you. These members include Fred Gilliam, who is the Chair; Paulette Shelton. And Paulette, if you would raise your hand. Stand up, please. She doesn't want to stand. She's being very shy. Vice Chair Vastine Olier, Don Halstead, Oscar Trevino, Tom King, who is also here ... Tom, thank you ... Bob Geyer, Mark Maddy, and Vinsen Faris.

These individuals bring an incredible amount of expertise and commitment to TxDOT, and we are truly blessed to have their involvement and participation. These individuals have been meeting and deliberating with TxDOT staff for the past couple of months considering a vast amount of public input from the internet, written comments, the six listening sessions that I mentioned earlier, and the statewide video conference that I mentioned earlier, and talking to their peers about how to create a better system of funding for public transportation, a system that considers performance, local needs, coordination and acceptance, meets the intent of the legislature which authorizes the Commission to establish funding formulas, and at the same time provides transition mechanisms to balance the need for stability and the need for change. It is a considerable challenge, and they have definitely risen to that challenge.

The draft rules represent the recommendations of the Advisory Committee and call for allocation of funds based on the following: State funds to be allocated between urban and rural transportation systems with 75 percent of the funding based on population and 25 based on land area; further allocation of these funds among the small urban systems to be based on an 80/20 split with 80 percent based on general population, 20 percent to be used at the Commission's discretion for strategic priorities to address funding anomalies and/or as the Commission directed to be based on performance measures, to include the following: Local funds per capita, operating expenses per mile inverted such that lower expenses are to a system's advantage in receiving funds compared to the system's performance from the previous year, ridership per capita compared to the system's performance from the previous year, vehicle driven miles compared to the system's performance from the previous year, such that if the system performs that much better, then it does have an advantage in receiving the funds under the proposed formula.

Further allocations of the State funds for rural transportation systems mirror that for the urban systems with 80 percent of the total allocation to determine a claim to a 75/25 split with 75 percent based on population and 25 percent based on land area and 20 percent of the total allocation determined by the same performance measures.

The allocation formula for the rural Federal funds mirrors the formula for rural State funds with an 80/20 split between need as defined by population and land area and performance, again as defined by the same performance measures.

Transition measures are proposed which include a five-year phasing process in which no entity would receive less than 90 percent or more than 120 percent of the award that it received in the previous fiscal year. This transition provides five years in which to make adjustments. It happens to indicate that 90 percent to 120 percent is intended to provide both protection from severe cuts and ease in growth.

The Advisory Committee also recommended that the funding formula be further evaluated with consideration of a graduated split that would increase over time the proportion of weight on performance measures from 80/20 in FY '05 to 70/30 for FY '06 to 60/20 for FY '07, and 50/50 for FY '08; that further criteria be considered to include administrative expense as compared to total budget, local contribution as compared with total budget, and ridership compared to eligible population.

And the Committee also recommended that TxDOT begin to collect data associated with administrative costs and coordination efforts per system for the Committee to consider for possible inclusion in the formula in future years. That data per system is not available at this time.

Due to time constraints of their meeting, the Committee did defer any additional comments, but based on the funding needs recommendations, we do recommend approval of the minute order which would allow the proposed rules to be further considered by the public.

May I answer any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, questions?

MR. HOUGHTON: Was the vote unanimous? Was the Committee unanimous?

MS. BRYANT: It depends on the motion. I believe there was one member who was absent. The remainder of the votes on the performance measures were unanimous with one abstention. And I believe the motion on the additional recommendations for further consideration, if I remember correctly, and I will -- Paulette or Tom can correct me if my memory is not as good as it ought to be -- I believe that motion was passed unanimously, also. Is that correct? Yes.

MR. NICHOLS: I'm going to reserve my comments or questions until -- I think you've got some other people signed up. I'm going to wait until I hear from them.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. So, Sue, if you will, take a seat. We've got three witnesses or three persons who have signed up with comments on the agenda item. I think I want to start with Amy Foerster to show my great affection for my former hometown, Abilene, Texas.

MS. FOERSTER: I'm Amy Foerster, representing the City of Lampasas and the City of Abilene, Texas.

In reference to the State formula, I do understand the urgency of decision for you, and I recognize there is a need for change; however, there are some concerns. I do appreciate definitely the consideration to draw up any proposed cuts over the five-year period; however, there is worry about the cuts being proposed. I represent poor communities who cannot afford to lose 25/50 percent of our funding. This is a dire situation for these longstanding transit providers.

In addition, when looking at the funding options, the most beneficial for these are core providers and longstanding communities in the transit industry like mine were those with additional weight given to performance measures. I believe that this says -- performance measure says that we are making transit work. And we would like consideration to be given to these future measures if that would raise the performance measures up to a 50/50 funding level.

I thank you for your time, as I know you will attempt in every way possible to hold our funding steady and as harmless as possible. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Amy.

Mark Sweeney.

MR. SWEENEY: I am Mark Sweeney, and I represent the East Texas Council of Governments. And for the record, for the Commissioners, I'd like to read a resolution that was passed on April 1st, 2004 by the Executive Committee of the East Texas Council of Governments:

"Whereas the East Texas Council of Governments has been designated the East Texas Rural Transit District and has been providing rural public transportation since 1990, and whereas the Texas Department of Transportation is drafting a proposed rural Federal allocation formula, and whereas based on population and population density ETCOG has been underfunded, and whereas based on population and population density ETCOG is the second largest rural public transportation operator, and whereas the Texas Transportation Commission has been tasked with developing a new formula for rural public transportation operators, now therefore let it be resolved that the Executive Committee of the East Texas Council of Governments recommends that the Texas Transportation Commission use population and population density as major parts in the new funding formula."

And we hope that you will seriously consider this resolution. As a matter of record, and I've said this before, we -- for the most part, ETCOG is the poster child of the underfunded in East -- in Texas, and we desperately do need more funding in order to provide the kind of service in our region, and we hope that this change in the funding formula will be done in such a fashion that will improve the funding and to improve the service to our citizens of our region.

Thank you very much.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Mark. Old friend, Tom King.

MR. KING: I'm Tom King. I represent several groups for and in East Texas, Texas (inaudible) Transportation Alliance, which is a coalition of ALCU service agencies for transportation stakeholders. I'm also Executive Director of Generations Together, the Generation Day Care Center, and I sit on PTAC.

Our work was very difficult, Michael, because of time constraints, not because the PTAC was not willing to take it on. One concern that I have is that we were unable to fold coordination into the performance measures in a way that we would like to have. That is something that I urge the Commission to look hard at for the future.

MR. WILLIAMSON: How do you mean? Coordination with the health and human service agencies?

MR. KING: Not just with the health and human service agencies, but between transit providers, between providers and County Commissioners and mayors and local citizen groups.

MR. WILLIAMSON: In other words, coordination between any public transit program?

MR. KING: Yeah. Well, we transfer them to the people they serve to better utilize equipment, to better utilize local resources so that large groups of people who are using vehicles can get better use out of them. That was very difficult to quantify, and it's something that's going to be our task over the next year, I think, as a PTAC, to come up with recommendations for that; but I feel very strongly that the Commission has to take the leadership in showing the regions how -- what coordination needs to look like and how much it's worth in terms of performance measures.

This year we've got a formula that starts us moving in a direction we want to go, but for the future please consider folding coordination into that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Questions for Tom, Members? Thank you, Tom.

Okay. Susan. Members, I know this has been a very contentious and emotional topic for all of us; so let's take our time and satisfy ourselves before we vote. As we've done in the past on these matters, the floor is open to members.

MR. HOUGHTON: Go ahead, Hope.

MR. NICHOLS: Are we going to have youngest --

MS. ANDRADE: No. We're going to have maturity.

MR. NICHOLS: Oh, maturity. All right. I formula, but I think they recognized that it was important that we were responsible for that; and so once they gave us that authority, as the Chairman said, it is a tough issue. And you could say there's winners and there's losers -- going to be losers, but at least we've given a good faith effort ... and I think the people on the Advisory Committee have, also ... to try to be fair, objective and have something of a measurable basis to this thing.

You know, the comment -- I'm going to make a couple of comments, and if I'm misstating, please correct me because it's my understanding that the Committee is going to continue to stay in place and work.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, very much so.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay. And so even though we're adopting these formulas today which lay out a formula academically -- or it will academically, it will be technically for the next five years in a proportion in there, we recognize that very shortly we're also going to be tackling the transportation portion of health and human services --

MS. BRYANT: That's correct.

MR. NICHOLS: -- which is another huge issue. Our intent is to try to make this not only efficient but user friendly; and so as we tackle right now, for people that don't understand, in each service area in many situations we have two different agencies in the state running services on the same streets to some of the same people but with different equipment and different dispatchers, and the legislature says, you know, we want this coordinated. So as we begin to tackle over the next 12 months the coordination of that particular issue, it is very likely to impact our existing providers that are affected by this formula; so as we get into that ... and I know it sounds complicated, and it is ... some of this -- some of these recommendations may change over the next year.

MS. BRYANT: That's very possible.

MR. NICHOLS: And as they change or if they change, we'll be looking to the Advisory Committee and we'll be commissioned -- I know I will be -- we'll be looking to the Commission for that advice and recommendations. And I think we may even be hiring some outside help on this thing. But before we make any of those changes we will go back out to the public statewide and have some of these hearings and input and all of that.

MS. BRYANT: That's correct.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay. So this doesn't end it is what my point is.

MS. BRYANT: This is only the beginning. And the minute order today is to allow proposed rules to go out to the public and will allow us to set and conduct public hearings and have then the formal public input process; so there will be then an additional opportunity for the Commission then to determine if they -- if you want to actually adopt the rules.

MR. NICHOLS: So concerns I see, and I have a letter from Lubbock expressing concerns or Abilene expressing concerns, this is not necessarily the end of it, this is just going to be the beginning.

MS. BRYANT: It is just the beginning.

MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you.

MR. NICHOLS: You've answered all of my questions.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members?

MS. ANDRADE: You see, Mr. Chairman, why I always let Commissioner Nichols speak first? He brings up such important points.

Susan, I also want to thank you and the Committee for all of the work that you did and realizing the time constraint that we were under, which does concern me when I hear that we were making recommendations but still based on rush of time.

However, as you've said, this is the beginning; so we will remain flexible to change as need be to better serve the people that need this service; is that correct?

MS. BRYANT: Yes, ma'am.

MS. ANDRADE: Okay.

MR. HOUGHTON: A work in progress, right?

MS. BRYANT: Oh, absolutely.

MR. HOUGHTON: Where is the East Texas Council of Governments? Where are you?

MS. BRYANT: That was Mark Sweeney.

MR. HOUGHTON: I was looking at the funding formulas and the allocation this year under the new Federal is 274, and you talk about being underfunded. I mean everybody wants more money, sure, and the proposed in 2009 is 580,000. That's double what you're getting today. And if you just struck underneath that in the County of El Paso which goes down, is there a dire need of that, all these rule changes?

I'm not finished yet. My point is --

MS. BRYANT: The answer is you voted in February on the recommendations from PTAC.

MR. HOUGHTON: Well, that was a key. My question is what was the vote and what was the vote count of the group? And East Texas under the State funding goes from 325 this year -- 325,000 thousand to 809,000 for 2009, and underneath that El Paso went down the other way; so I understand everyone wants more money, but --

MR. SWEENEY: Sure.

MR. HOUGHTON: -- I just wanted to point that out.

MR. WILLIAMSON: He wanted to know why you came up here and complained.

MR. HOUGHTON: I'm wondering, now, what's wrong with this picture? Was that --

MR. SWEENEY: Sure.

MR. HOUGHTON: And again thanks for the input, but at the same time I think it's critical that we look at personalizing these things, and the input of Sue's Committee is -- that's important, very, very important.

MR. SWEENEY: Well, I just appreciate the Commission looking into this and trying to pursue a path to correct the inequities. I know there's a lot of areas in the state; Alamo COG area, like us, is underfunded, and we know there's a need for some adjustment. We realize this requires a lot of team work here, and we're willing to work as a team member here to make this thing in a way that is workable for everybody; so thank you.

MR. HOUGHTON: Great.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Are we done, Members?

Okay. We've reached the -- You're aware that even on the Commission there's a vast difference in members' view of how much should be allocated to performance and how much should be allocated to the process from the beginning.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Some of us believe 100 percent ought to be performance.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And some of us believe 100 percent ought to be process. But our willingness to accept the work of the Committee is an indication of how the Commission approaches problem solving. We recognize that there are middle grounds and consensus to that.

I will venture to tell you and your Committee members, you know, in my years in the legislature I sort of divided members into three categories. There is the member on any given issue that's important to him or her that is simply concerned with satisfying his community needs. It doesn't matter what the cost is, doesn't matter what the penalties are. He or she is not concerned about that. He or she wants to get as much public transit funding into Jacksonville as he or she can.

Then there's the member who's primarily concerned with the amount of taxes his constituents are paying for all of government. And he doesn't really or she doesn't really object to public service; that doesn't matter to him or her. What matters is how much are my constituents having to pay in taxes to support all of this, and is it too much for El Paso, Texas?

And then there's a third kind of member who is sort of a minority that is out there, and we will hear from that member in six months, and that's the member that understands that public transit is important to San Antonio and that the tax load is important in Weatherford, but what's really important is what is being purchased with the taxes that's extracted. That's performance.

Now, just from the Chair's view, numbers of people is not performance. I know it's used to define it as that. That's not really performance. That's process. We can fully expect that these members who took a chance, whether it was from East Texas or from Ranger, that these members who took a chance on their own political career hand over to us responsibility for recutting the pie, Tom. They need to be able to justify their decision to their constituents, and the one way every member can justify that decision is to point ultimately to a performance based system and say, "Well, we gave it to the Commission, and they gave it to PTAC so that they could focus on rewarding performance and not process."

Now, I'm only one of five, and we always work through the consensus, but I'm just telling you we'll have an Appropriations and a Senate Finance member asking those questions in six months about "Well, what is it the citizens of Mesquite are getting for the money they pay in taxes?"

And my view of government is every year more and more politicians are going to ask ... Larry Phillips is there; he might confirm this ... not so much what's going on in my community or what my tax load is, but what am I getting for my money. So as you rework the formulas, just bear that in mind. We are all creatures of the political process, and to the extent that we can achieve this by performance, we're all better off.

You-all did a marvelous job. I can't tell you how pleased ... in fact, "pleasant" is probably a good word ... how pleasantly surprised we were with you, with the product, very pleasantly surprised.

Okay, Members. Is there a motion?

MS. ANDRADE: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Is there a second?

MR. HOUGHTON: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: All those in favor will

signify by saying "aye". All opposed, "no". Motion carries. Thank you, Sue.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you very much.

MR. BEHRENS: We'll go to Item 3(b), which is concerning the Memorandum of Understanding with the Texas Historical Commission.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mike, it looks like we're going to have some transition; so this would be a really good time to take a three-minute break. Everybody take a three-minute break.

(Recess taken from 11:40 to 11:50 a.m.).

MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay, Mike.

MR. BEHRENS: Okay. We're at Agenda Item 3(b)(1), which will be the presented by Diana Noble.

MS. NOBLE: Thank you, Mr. Behrens. Good morning, Commissioners. For the record, my name is Diana Noble, Director of Environmental Affairs.

Item 3(b)(1) proposes adoption of amendments to 2.21 relating to the requirement for and purpose of the Memorandum of Understanding of the State Resource Agencies, and the simultaneous repeal of Section 2.24 and adoption of new Section 2.24 relating to the Memorandum of Understanding with the Texas Historical Commission providing for the review of transportation projects.

Section 201.607 of the Transportation Code requires the Texas Department of Transportation to adopt a Memorandum of Understanding of each State agency that has a responsibility for the protection of the natural environment and the preservation of historic and archeological resources.

Section 201.607 also requires the Department to adopt these memoranda and all revisions by rule and to evaluate and revise the MOU's every five years. The last amendment to the Memorandum of Understanding with the Texas Historical Commission was in 1998. The proposed amendment to 2.21, the repeal of the current 2.24 and the new 2.24 were presented to the Commission on January 29th, 2004.

The proposed amendment to 2.21 and repeal of 2.24 and the new for 2.24 were published in the Texas Register on February the 13th, 2004 in order to solicit public comment and input. No comments were received.

The new Memorandum of Understanding with the Texas Historical Commission will streamline the environmental review of TxDOT process and the product delivery process by reducing the volume of project submission to the Texas Historical Commission and reducing the review time to those proposed projects that require individual review by the Historical Commission.

It focuses attention on those projects most likely to have adverse impacts on significant historic and archeological properties. The new Memorandum of Understanding was developed jointly by TxDOT and the Texas Historical Commission staff.

I'll be glad to answer any questions.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, the floor is open to yourself to ask questions now.

There being no questions, do I have a motion?

MS. ANDRADE: So moved.

MR. HOUGHTON: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor will signify by saying "aye". All opposed, "no". Motion carried.

How is your son?

MS. NOBLE: He's doing very well. Thank you so much for asking, Commissioner.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Everyone in this department thinks about your son.

MS. NOBLE: Well, it was said to us the only reason that he survived was the fact that he was the most brave teenager in the state of Texas, but he's doing great. Thank you so much for asking.

MR. BEHRENS: Agenda Item 3(b)(2) is concerning Contracts. Richard Monroe.

MR. MONROE: Good morning, Commissioners.

My name is Richard Monroe. I am General Counsel for the Texas Department of Transp