Texas Department of Transportation Commission Meeting

Childress Fair Park Auditorium
Childress Fair Park, North Commerce Street
Childress Texas

Thursday, July 29, 2004

COMMISSION MEMBERS:

MR. RIC WILLIAMSON, Chairman
MR. JOHN W. JOHNSON
MR. ROBERT L. NICHOLS
MS. HOPE ANDRADE
MR. TED HOUGHTON, JR.

STAFF:

MR. MICHAEL W. BEHRENS, Executive Director
MR. RICHARD MONROE, General Counsel
MR. ROGER POLSON, Executive Assistant To The Deputy Executive Director

PROCEEDINGS

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Good morning. It's 9:07 a.m. and I would like to call this historic July meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission to order. It's a great pleasure for the Commission and it's department employees to hold this meeting in Childress, Texas, because it's the first time in the 87 year history of the Department or the Commission, that we've held a commission meeting in Childress and this part of the State.

We have been treated to a royal reception by the Chamber of Commerce, city officials and various county officials from across the upper regions of North Texas and we are deeply appreciative for our treatment. We have been reminded of some interesting things while we have been here. Childress, the city is named for George C. Childress who authored the Texas Declaration of Independence. Let me take a moment to once again publicly compliment the Board of Directors and all the patrons of the museum where we met for the reception yesterday.

If you haven't been to the museum, you should go. Wonderful layout about how this part of the state developed and has really a life-like figure of George C. Childress signing the Texas Declaration of Independence. The region is known for cattle, cotton and some of the best representation to the Texas legislature I've ever seen. Before we proceed any further, let me remind everyone that if you wish to address us, you must complete a card that's available to you in the lobby. If you want to comment on an item that's on our agenda, specifically on our agenda, we ask that you fill out the yellow card.

If you want to comment generally, and just compliment the Department on what a great job it's doing, you can fill out the blue card which will, of course, go into the rotary wheel for the drawing at the end of the meeting. Regardless of which color card you fill out, regardless of what you wish to say, we ask that you limit your remarks to three minutes so we can keep the meeting moving along for everyone.

Now, at this point, we come to one of the most important tasks of the day. A lot of you sitting in the audience participate in public service; school board, city council, church board, legislature. And all of you have experienced that tremendous uncomfortable moment when you're trying to listen to somebody speak and yes, the phone rings.

So let's all take a moment pull out our cell phones, our dew berries or whatever those things are called, our pagers, and let's put them on the silent mode. I will do mine while you do yours. There we go. Now no one will be interrupted. Thank you very much. We have a formal agenda but this Commission is extremely sensitive to the time and the presence of any member of the legislature who chooses to participate in our meetings. And we always stop our agenda at this point and give those members who are present the opportunity to offer whatever remarks they may or may not want to offer at this time.

We have with us, that I'm aware of two members of the legislature -- unless Mr. Chisum slipped in -- Senator Duncan and Representative Hardcastle. And Senator Duncan, as always, sir, please come tell us whatever we need to hear.

SENATOR DUNCAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members on behalf of the 28th Senatorial District and the folks in Childress and this region, I want to welcome you to Childress, Texas; as you know probably one of the most beautiful and I think relaxing areas in the State of Texas, if not the country.

This is a place that I think is very sophisticated. It's location in this state I think is very forward thinking. And we think so much of it that we're actually on a dual purpose today; meeting with you today as well as getting ready to open a district office for our senate in this area, in Childress, Texas. So we think a lot of the people here.

And I want to thank you for coming here. The Commission has been most responsive to the issues and needs of rural Texas. Each and every one of you I know are committed to doing the Lord's work with regard to highways and transportation in Texas.

I think each and every one of you are appointed by Governor Rick Perry. And I want to say one thing, that Governor Perry does an outstanding job of selecting the best to serve in particular positions. And on this Commission, I want to commend Governor Perry for his appointments of people who have not only dedication but also with a vision for transportation in Texas.

I want to say this as well, I think that this Commission is -- if you ever go to Austin and you go to the meeting there, you'll always see delegation after delegation after delegation. And I've always been impressed by the way the staff and by the way the Commission deals with the citizens of this state and the concerns of each of the regions of this state.

So on behalf of my constituents in this area, I want to thank you for your being here and I want to thank you for your excellent service to the State of Texas.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: We are appreciative of those remarks. Members?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Can you hear me? Is my mike on? Can you hear me now.

I said this at breakfast and I want to say it again in front of your constituents; how much we appreciate all the hard work and support you've given the Texas Department of Transportation.

There were times in our past where we needed help and you've always been there to support us, and it's not forgotten. And you can count on our support for this community and its members of the district. We appreciate it very much. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Members? Anything else? Let me just echo, Senator Duncan, what Mr. Nichols said. You know me well. We don't -- for those of you in the audience who are not familiar with the way we shift between relationship with the members of the Legislature. We don't compliment legislators who come in and ask us to help them who or not Board of Transportation friendly. That just doesn't happen.

If someone comes before us with words we respectfully listen and we stay silent. So when we compliment someone, we mean it. And Robert Duncan has been a solid stalwart of transportation in this state throughout his service in the legislature and that is not forgotten.

We appreciate his working with one of the what we think is one of the most important parts of state Government. Thank you a lot.

Mr. Hardcastle. He survived the rainstorm, slightly.

REPRESENTATIVE HARDCASTLE: We can get rain in July in north Texas, we are always happy. As Senator Duncan said and on behalf of Chairman Chisum who had to go on to Ft. Worth this morning and didn't have time to stay.

But Childress is actually in his district but borders all of my district. And as Senator Duncan said we really appreciate from our standpoint how much attention y'all have paid to rural Texas. We appreciate your employees; we appreciate their willingness to work with us and work through the problems with us.

And, of course, as I told you last night, you're in the rest of Texas. But the third of the people that leave Texas for any reason come through this part of the State to get out, which throws it right back in the Commission's lap, because they're leaving on Texas highways.

So we do appreciate you being here; we appreciate your work and we appreciate the fact especially that you as a whole Commission pay attention to rural Texas and don't just fund our urban centers only, and pay attention to the rest of the State. And anything we can do to help you, you know where to find us.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Hubert, Mr. Hardcastle, we thank you, also, for your support of transportation necessity to this state. You've been a good voice for us on the outside and we've enjoyed working with you.

REPRESENTATIVE HARDCASTLE: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: It's our custom to open the meeting, after we hear from our local or statewide elected officials, it's our custom to open the meeting with comments from each of the Commission members. And we also customarily start on the far end of the table, with Mr. Houghton. So, Ted, take off.

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: It's truly an honor to be here. As I mentioned to a group this morning at breakfast, I spent many, many a summer north and west of here on the Houghton Ranch south of Dalhart, north of Amarillo and worked this area and worked real hard. And that's why I'm not in the ranching business any longer. So --but it was truly an experience.

And when the settlers came to this great state, this is what they saw, and this is why people fell in love with Texas. And this is truly Texas, and in its purest form.

Major metropolitan areas, this is what they saw, this is why they stayed. Last night we had a tremendous event at the District offices; out of the ballpark.

I calculate that, based on the population, I saw about ten percent of your population last night at the district office, which is neat. Because that's how the Titans of this community as you know one another, and you take care of your neighbors, and it was truly a remarkable evening, something I will never forget.

And I reserve my comments regarding Senator Duncan -- he is truly a good friend of mine. I mentioned that we -- I organized a fund-raiser when he ran for the vacated senatorial seat. He used to represent me in El Paso, still wish he did. He is truly a personal friend. And Senator, you can count on me for my support anytime you need it.

Representative Chisum, I look forward to working with in the future. We have a lot of initiatives coming your way this next session. Again, thank you very much for your hospitality.

COMMISSIONER ANDRADE: Good morning. It's great to be in Childress. And may -- I have to tell you this, of all the power point presentations that I've had in my short term, yours has been the best. Thanks very much. Again, thank you so much for last night. You certainly made us feel special.

It's my second time out to this area, and I can tell you that both visits have been greatly, greatly appreciated. I look forward to coming back. And if last night truly was a representation of the population of Childress, I have to tell you that it's a great place to live. Thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Nick.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: We've had a lot of fun. I felt like we have been welcomed. Hospitality has been wonderful.

For those of you who weren't aware, we had a reception yesterday in the museum, with a lot of the chamber and elected officials, you know, county and city -- the mayor, Kevin Stuart from the city, some of the projects, some of the things in the community.

And the dinner with the district employees was outstanding last night. They had a big cook-off. I think it was a county to county competition or something like that and we reaped the benefits of that fine food.

But it's good to be here. I'm very pleased that the Texas Department of Transportation Commission ten years ago decided to take state Government out of Austin, go out into the state, into the different communities with our Commissioner's meeting. Worked great. Gives opportunity for people in the communities to see government at work. Gives you an opportunity, those of you who are interested in transportation, to meet with some of the different officials, from Austin, that you might not otherwise have an opportunity to meet.

And we'll be discussing a very wide range of topics of issues. We will be voting on some of what I think are critical issues. And I'm glad that you're here to be a part of it. Thank you.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, good morning again. I just have a brief experience I want to share with you. Last week I was out of the country. In fact, I was in England, and I had some meetings in Windsor, which is south and west of London. And you might be aware that Windsor castle is there. And that's one of the residences of the royal family.

And what I wanted to relate to you was the treatment that I individually and I think I speak collectively for everybody up here and everyone that come from Austin and all corners around the State, the treatment that we have received is probably better than the residents of Windsor castle.

Your experience and hospitality are without peer. And I told Terry in the district office last night, and all the TxDOT family there, in my book, you're No. 1. And that extends to everywhere and Senator Duncan and Representative Hardcastle and Representative Chisum, consistencies; you are No. 1. You're unique and special and I'm most grateful for all the hospitality that has been extended to me personally and I think I speak for everyone here.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Hear, hear.

I just echo remarks of my colleagues. Always a happy occasions to leave Austin, Texas and go out where people live and work and pay their taxes. Real people. Normal people. People other than people who live in our temporary offices in Austin, Texas. We have been treated royally and we appreciate the well-known West Texas hospitality. It is time for us to tend to some business.

And, Mr. Keener, I think we may just turn it over to the Childress District Engineer, and tell us about your 253 employees, tell us about your 5413 lane miles in your 13 counties. We want to hear it.

MR. KEENER: Thank you, sir. Mr. Williamson, with your permission, I would like to introduce the mayor of the City of Childress for some brief comments, if that would be all right.

Mayor Pat Steed has been mayor here in Childress for some 20 years and he would like the opportunity to visit with you just a minute.

MAYOR STEED: Brief comment. Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, TxDOT administration and staff, we welcome you to Childress.

I am Pat Steed Mayor of Childress. On behalf of all of our citizens, we are very pleased you are here in Childress holding this July Commission meeting in our fine community.

I have just a couple of more power point presentations and it's in keeping with yesterday afternoon's power point presentation.

I've asked a couple of individuals from our community, citizens here in Childress, to come up just for a couple brief comments. Rather than hearing from me, I want you to hear from the horse's mouth about Childress and certain interaction with TxDOT's activities.

So with your permission, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask three individuals from Childress to come up here. First being Weldon Hayes. He is a member of our Airport Advisory Committee, which is very important here in Childress, our airport. Many of you flew in, landing at the airport.

The second is Judge Jay Mayden, who is, I guess the youngest county judge or maybe one of the youngest county judges in the State of Texas.

Both Mr. Hayes and Judge Mayden were raised here in Childress, and have lived here all of their lives.

The third individual is Jim Jennings. Jim is a retiree, Mr. Chairman, from another community, that saw fit to retire here in Childress. He is the chairman of our Keep Childress Beautiful Committee.

If I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to call those individuals up just for very brief comments.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Yes, sir.

MAYOR STEED: Weldon Hayes first.

MR. HAYES: Thank you, Pat.  Good morning to everyone. I apologize. I'm going to have to have a little light so I can see my notes.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. HAYES: My name is Weldon Hayes, and I'm a member of the Childress Airport Advisory Board.

We believe that a well-functioning airport is vital to a community and of course the Childress airport is no exception. In all probability, Childress would not have been awarded a state prison had we not had a good airport.

The Childress airport was constructed in 1942 and 1943, as a Childress Army Air Base, to train navigators and bombardiers for service in World War II. After the war it was turned back over to the City of Childress.

For a town of less than 7,000 population we believe that we have a very active airport. During a typical year we estimate approximately 2,200, 2,500 aircraft operations, that's takeoffs and landings, per year.

These operations represent aircraft from 35 states and 72 Texas towns. We also have had aircraft and pilots from England, Canada, Mexico and Russia. Most of these aircraft are, of course, on cross country flights but many do stop in Childress for business purposes and visit families and to spend the night in our motels, and also to hunt.

We have had hunters fly in from Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, North Carolina and other areas, to hunt locally for deer, quail, dove, turkey and wild hogs.

And we want to say thank you to the TxDOT Aviation Division for the program and support of our Texas airports. In the last several years Childress has made close to $2,000,000 in improvements to our airport through the TxDOT Aviation Capital Improvement Program, which funds 90 percent of major airport improvements, with a participating city providing the other ten percent of funding.

The city has plans to continue in this capital improvement program for the year 2006, 2007, funding cycle. The city has also participated in the Routine Airport Maintenance Program, which is calmed RAMP, R-A-M-P for short.

This program provides each year a 50/50 pay out, 50 percent state funds, 50 percent local funds, for up to $30,000 each for airport improvements.

And to the TxDOT Commissioners, we appreciate you're coming today and may we say a big thank you for your support for your time, for your interest, and efforts in making and keeping the Texas transportation system what it is today, the No. 1 state transportation system in America. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I don't want to catch you off-guard. I'm curious. If you can't answer the question, maybe someone else can.

Do we know how many direct employees are associated with the prison in this area now? Is it 50 or 75, is it 100?

MR. HAYES: I'm sorry. I do not know.

MAYOR STEED: How many employees?

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Direct. Not the Chamber of Commerce figures indirectly, but --

MAYOR STEED: For the prison system?

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: For the prison system itself.

MAYOR STEED: Somebody is going to have to help me, but I would say it would be close to 300. Does that sound about right; 350, 300?

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Would most of those have been native North Texans that were hired on the job, did some of them move --

MAYOR STEED: Very few were imported to this area. Most of these 300, 350, are native to this area. By this area I don't mean necessarily Childress.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I understand.

MAYOR STEED: That's the surrounding area for probably 50, 60 mile area. Yes, sir. It's a tremendous economic boost to our area here in Childress.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Thank you. Thank you for your remarks.

MAYOR STEED: Judge Jay Mayden. By the way, Judge Mayden is the Childress County Judge. And he looks really young because he is.

JUDGE MAYDEN: First of all, let me thank the Commission for allowing me to give this small presentation.

What I want to discuss today is the walking path that most of you may have seen during the tour through our Fair Park. The path was created with the enhancement fund given us by the State, TxDOT.

The path serves many purposes for our community, but I feel the three main purposes for the path being one, character. It gives our Fair Park character. As you notice, I'm going to be biased here, but we have probably the most beautiful park in the State of Texas. The city employees worked hard creating this environment in the past. It's just enhanced that character of the park.

Second being the path promotes a healthy life style for the citizens of Childress. Many of you know before we -- if y'all are from small towns -- if you didn't have walking paths, you went to the local track and walked.

And if you've ever walked around a track which -- believe it or not looking at me I have walked around a track before -- it gets a little monotonous. You see the same thing going in circles. After four to eight laps you get tired of it and eventually you get tired of doing it and your life style will change where you won't exercise any more. The walking path creates an environment where you see something different almost every time you walk through there, you can go different directions, different areas, go through the park, by our stadium, by our high school.

Also, probably the most important reason or aspect of the path is to promote safety. Texas is known on Friday nights as the football capital of the world. Those of you who have been even to larger events know that a parking lot, after football games, is probably the most dangerous area for a child to be. And no exception here.

When I was little you took your life in your hands going to your mom and dad's car after football games, because you would dart out in the parking lot in front of cars, what have you. This path creates a safe way or safe means for kids to get to where they're going. It also permits a pathway for the children, where kids don't have to be walking on the street to get to where they're going to playgrounds.

So it promotes a safe environment for our community to be able to get to where they need to go, a healthy environment to promote the life style we want, and also gives character to the park.

Also, one more thing, I know each and everyone of you have heard this several times, but it really is an honor for us to have you here. And feel free to come back any time. Thank you for allowing me to speak.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Any questions or comments?

Following my same line with the Mayor, on the location of the prison, did TxDOT help do anything on the roads to make that happen.

JUDGE MAYDEN: Yes. But when the prison was created, I was a junior in high school so --

(LAUGHTER)

JUDGE MAYDEN: I remember riding a bike through the park during the time of the promotion of the prison. But I'm sure it did.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: So you just don't remember?

JUDGE MAYDEN: I don't remember. I'm sure they did, though.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Maybe somebody else can. Thank you for your kind remarks. We appreciate it.

MAYOR STEED: I told you he was young. In fact, TxDOT did have a major part of that, all of that project. FM 164, which connects 83 and 287, was improved to pass by the prison facility which is located near the municipal airport. Also the surface separation at the TxDOT facility, that's the route that most prison employees take to work every shift.

It provides safety and enhanced that ability to get to work. So TxDOT played a great role in that, in the location of it.

Thank you, Judge Mayden.

This is Jim Jennings. Jim is not a native of Childress. He has been here a few years. Great guy. Chairman of our Keep Childress Beautiful, which is a very, very active group of people here in Childress. And I would like ask Jim to make a few brief comments.

MR. JENNINGS: Good morning. And welcome to Childress.

Keep Childress Beautiful was formed out of the spirit of we believe Childress is beautiful and we want to keep it that way. My attitude towards Keep Childress beautiful is God made Childress beautiful and we're going to help it stay that way. So we just want to express our appreciation to TxDOT for their continued support of Keep Texas Beautiful, with which we are affiliated. Without your support, the funds would not be available to do what we do.

The community was fortunate to be awarded the 2002-2003 Governor's Achievement Award, in the sum of about $70,000, that we have been able to use here. And if you visit the courthouse you will see our first project on that, where we have added to the beautification of the front of the courthouse, that has also a Veteran's Memorial right on the highway; a focal point of the city.

And we do appreciate the opportunity to use those funds that you have provided to give the tourists that come through here and our locals, an opportunity to see how beautiful Childress can be.

And we just wish now as you're here and have visited this town, that you will take time to see our city from the point of just the common tourist and not as a representative of our TxDOT, or anyone else. Just on your own to see we do have a beautiful city.

And once again, we just thank you for your part and support. And we wish to thank the local TxDOT office for the support they have given us on a continued basis on our projects.

We welcome you and we thank you and we hope that you will continue your support of Keep Texas Beautiful.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Questions for the gentleman, anyone?

Thank you, sir.

MAYOR STEED: In conclusion, I hope that I have given you a sense of, between yesterday's power point and today's power point and the reception, and I know you've got a sense from the TxDOT employees, of how proud we are of Childress.

We've got some wonderful, wonderful people here in Childress. And that's why people want to come Childress, that's why they stay in Childress. That's why they retire -- and let me say this, speaking for Childress, yes, but I'm really speaking for rural Texas.

That's why they want to be here. It's not because of anything else but just kind, loving, caring people out here. And we're real proud of Childress and all the citizens and its accomplishments.

We're awfully proud of District 25 because all these people -- I bet 90 percent of these people are home-grown people that are employees out here.

Terry Keener is not a home grown person. He's only been here about 31 years. That tells you a little bit about this area.

So we're proud of it. We appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for giving me a little bit of extra time, Mr. Chairman, this morning, to highlight a few more things.

Thank you for being here, on behalf of the citizens.

Terry, thank you for all the work you and the employees do here. We appreciate you very much. Mr. Chairman, if there's no question I will turn it back over to Mr. Keener.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: It's not a question. I have a comment. And it's not only to the mayor and the City Counsel, but I want to make sure the members of the community -- and you came here from surrounding counties also -- understand how much we appreciate communities and counties that work with us.

And it is so helpful to have the city and the Chamber of Commerce and the county commissioners court to partner with our area office, with our maintenance office and with our district office on projects, because we can't do it without you.

We do go into some communities in the state who are squabbling among themselves; who take an opportunity to try to nip at us; to take advantage of the situation for a different kind of a benefit.

And I know that y'all have helped us in many instances -- we talked about this some yesterday -- in the location of the district office. The community came together, helped us get land, set it all up, stuff like that.

I think the community needs to know that y'all have really done a great job; the city council, chamber, county, the whole bunch. I just wanted to say that.

MAYOR STEED: Thank you for your comments. Any other questions? If not, Terry --

MR. KEENER: Thank you. And I'll begin my presentation now.

On behalf of the Childress District employees, the City of Childress and the 13 counties this district represents and serves, we again want to extend our appreciation to each of you for being here today and providing us the opportunity to host this July, 2004 Commissioner's meeting. Again, welcome to Childress.

In this district we emphasize safety, quality and accountability. This department expects it and the public deserves it. My briefing this morning is intended to provide insight into the 13 counties we serve and how our district operates.

The district is rural, very rural. None of y'all have ever questioned that fact. In fact, it's so rural I would almost submit to you that we need another classification for districts like ours, that being a frontier district.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. KEENER: You need to understand, areawise we are the 9th largest district. Populationwise, we are sitting dead last. We have approximately 41,000 people in this district.

That averages 3.8 people per square mile, compared to the Statewide average of 80 people per square mile. Childress County here is the most populated county. We have approximately 11 people per square mile.

But we have a county south of here, King County that has a total of 333 people in their county, which is less than half a person per square mile. You know, therefore I think in a lot of ways, this area is like the pioneers that settled and moved west back in the 1800s. They carved out their trails as they moved west.

When they started establishing the settlements, they started improving their roads, because they needed better roads to move people and goods. I predict that the population in the metro areas eventually will understand what we have here in these rural areas and they'll start spilling over into these areas.

Congestion will come and also will come the demand for faster and better transportation systems. Progress may be a little slow for awhile. But I think that we have the opportunity now to get what I call a jump-go and maybe we can stay ahead of the congestion that we might be anticipating out in this part of the area.

Overall, the population in this district has declined since the 1990 census. We have declined by about nine percent.

We represent an aging population here. 21 and a half percent of our citizens are 65 years of age or older. That is compared to about ten percent on a statewide basis. This is why the Regional Medical Center here in Childress is so vitally important to all of our citizens here. The next medical facility is over 100 miles from here.

We have an agriculture base, that being cotton, cattle and wheat. The per capita income per person is 15,000, compared to statewide of being around 40,000.

Retail sales in this area is $4,800, compared to a statewide average per capita of $9,400. While we don't enjoy the luxury of a lot of fancy restaurants, shopping malls and other entertainments that are found in the big cities, we do enjoy some of the simple pleasures that are -- that is brought forward with a slower lifestyle.

For example, in my research for this presentation I found out that your average time to work here in Childress is 11 minutes. That kind of surprised me. But as y'all saw yesterday when we brought you out to the district office, it kind of depends on the mode of transportation and the time of day.

You know, I guess if you get caught, like I told you, in the early morning or noon rush minute, that we have at the courthouse, we can relate and realize a little bit more about the congestion that you have in the bigger cities.

Our average temperature in this district is 62 degrees. That's great, isn't it? What you need to realize is to get that average, we have recorded a record low of minus five degrees, in February of 1986. And we have a high recorded temperature of 117 degrees in June of 1994.

You know, when you have those high temperatures the pavement temperature is reaching 150 degrees plus. And I can very well remember that record high that we had.

We had a seal coat contractor that was trying to lay some seal coat out on the roads. It was so hot that we had to literally shut down. The emulsion would not break when it hit the pavement.

Our average rainfall in this area is 22 inches. You just need to be there that day that it all comes down.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. KEENER: The picture you see on the left there, if you don't recognize it, is the underpass on out on US 83, and that's the top of one of our semis that happened to get off in there and stall before they could get it out. Usually we have several snow storms and an occasional ice storm in the winner.

Now, what I would like to do now is go in to some of the district statics. We have 245 permanent FTEs in this district. That's down a little bit from a year ago when we had 253 FTEs.

We have recently just been approved four additional temporary FTEs for a large construction project we have in Knox County.

Typically our employees will wear many hats, which means we staff a little different than a lot of the other districts. Average experience in this district is 11 years. 82 percent of our work force has less than 20 years of service.

By 2008, 16 percent of us will be eligible to retire. Our turnover rate in the last three years has increased from about six percent to ten percent.

We maintain 2,500 miles of road in this district. We have 700 on-system bridges and 200 off-system bridges. Traffic on our highways varies from an average on our lesser traveled roads, of 50 to less, vehicles per day, up to and approaching 14,000 vehicles per day on Interstate 40 and U.S. 287, with 50 percent of that traffic being truck traffic.

Now, I would like to go into a part of my presentation where I address the five major categories of operation within the department, starting with planning.

Ladies and gentlemen, we do not have the congestion that's found in what I would refer as the Golden Triangle, that being the Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio triangle. The Texas Turnpike Authority Division recently performed a toll viability study on two of the projects in this district. Their conclusion, collection of tolls only could not generate enough revenue to pay for the combined operation and maintenance cost over a 40-year period. The negative net revenue indicates that funding projects through bonds may not be possible.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: May I interrupt?

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I want to make two points, that I am aware we have some visitors from other parts of the State. And you just talked about two things that are important to the State, or to the Commission, overall leadership efforts statewide.

First thing, would you flash the picture up of the five principals by which we organize our procedure plan and our business plan. And I'm not sure that every one in the audience understands that we are a goal-driven, planning organization; that all of us throughout the State focuses on those five things.

In fact, do you have the ability to roll that back?

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: We are all focused on those five components as the underlying or the guiding -- the guidepost for our strategic plan and our budget and our measurement of our success or failure.

And I think we are one of the few state agencies that have fully integrated their strategic plan and their budget and their follow-through into one easy to understand set of guideposts.

Everything we do is focused on building -- planning something, building something, using something, maintaining something, managing something. I appreciate you incorporating that into your presentation.

The second question, or the second point I wanted to allow you to help me make, was the fact we didn't presume that there was any district in the state that should not go through this whole process. Because we have to be very sensitive to our constituency in San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth and Houston, to assure them that we're asking the entire state to go through the process with every one of their projects that might be toll viable; we need to identify if they are or not toll viable.

Because we are one state. We don't treat anyone different, whether it's Beaumont, or Wellington, whether it's Texarkana or Munday. Everyone is treated the same and every problem is solved the same. And you've helped us make the point here that every district went through that process of trying to figure out where it will work.

In some parts of West Texas, as we have discovered, it's just not going to work for awhile. Thank you.

MR. KEENER: Thank you. We feel like at some point there will be some viable toll options that we have, but it will probably be a few years down the road.

Continuing on. Our current emphasis on planning has and probably will continue to be on safety, preservation and restoration of the system. Currently our preventive maintenance plan centers around a seven to eight-year SealCoat cycle. And we overlay approximately 2500 miles of asphalt and concrete pavement per year.

We have made good progress on the restoration of our highways in this district. With Interstate 40 and U.S. 287 being completely rehabilitated in the last few years.

U.S. 83 is -- we're in the process of doing that now and we should complete that very soon.

Mobility and increased capacity projects are generally limited to the highways we have on our trunk system. We have five trunk system routes that go through the Childress District.

U. S. 287 is currently under contract to provide a four-lane, divided facility with grade separation structures at our major intersections.

Our next push will be on a -- to provide a four-lane divided highway on the concurrent routes of U.S. 82, State Highway 114.

To those in the audience who may not know, U.S. 82 starts in New Mexico, goes through Lubbock, Wichita Falls, Sherman, Paris, on to Texarkana.

While State Highway 114 starts in New Mexico goes through Lubbock and terminates somewhere around Dallas.

Improving safety on our project is always a major importance to us. We have a prioritized plan to widen our narrow roadways, those less than 26 feet.

We have a planned upgrade to all the bridge approach rails on our structures in the district. For the last five years, we have had several HES projects to provide culverts widening and safety end treatments. And we plan to continue with this effort.

During our Transportation Planning Process, we always schedule public meetings and solicit the public input. However, attendance at these meetings are often few in numbers. It's hard to determine if that is apathy on the part of the public or whether they trust this district to do the right thing for them. They're satisfied.

The staff and I regularly meet with local officials and civic organizations to get as much input in the planning process as we possibly can. Additionally, I will meet with Senator Duncan and our two state representatives, Rick Hardcastle and Warren Chisum at least annually to discuss the district activities and our direction.

Most of our design work is accomplished with a centralized design team located at our district office. We do use consultants occasionally for our peak workloads. However, the average consultant cost per plan sheet is around $3300. Our inhouse cost per plan sheet is about $2,400. Therefore, when possible we do as much design work in-house as possible.

Our designers have developed several unique designs unique to the State; one being the Super 2 design. This design improves two-lane highways by adding passing lines at predetermined intervals to provide ample passing opportunities.

Since the rural accidents account for a large percentage of the highway fatalities in the U.S., we believe this design helps saves lives.

We are currently trying a new technique to provide a smoother ride on a jointed concrete pavement. You will notice that on 287 as you ride out here.

We are retrofitting our jointed concrete slabs by use of dowel bars to have a better load transfer. And then we're going back again and diamond grinding to provide a smoother riding surface.

We have just completed a project which utilized a construction technique unique to Texas, down south of here, where we rubbilized an old under-laying concrete pavement, an 18-foot in width pavement, one of the old pavements. We rubbilized it, seating it, and then put asphalt concrete pavement overlay on it. We --

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Time.

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Explain what you just said to a normal person.

MR. KEENER: A lot of the highways in the this part of the district started out being an 18 to 20-feet old concrete pavement. As they were widened and rebuilt through the years, the concrete pavement was just covered up with the additional base material and with the surface.

Because of the concrete underlying there it caused a very rough ride and we were continually having to deal with the joints and keeping them sealed up and keeping the pavement in good maintenance.

In order to provide a better ride, we have uncovered, taken the surface off of that old concrete pavement. We have completely broken it up and shattered it, destroyed any bonding or slabbing effect that would move on us. We went over it with a roller and seated it back down where it would not move --

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: You say seated; you mean pressed?

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: So you ground it up and pressed it?

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir. And then we came back over it with a new surface. And we feel like because of destroying the slabbing effect or the movement of the old concrete pavement that we had underlying there, that it would -- it's going to provide a good foundation and provide a good ride for us, with minimum cost, is what it amounts to. Very economic design technique.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: What kind of machine do you use to bust that up?

MR. KEENER: It's a resin breaker; looks like a guillotine mounted on the back of a truck. It looks like a guillotine. It's a big heavy weight goes about every foot to 18-inches down the road just breaking that. Just rubbilizes it.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: You call that your rubbilizer?

MR. KEENER: Excuse me?

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: You call that your rubbilizer?

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir. That's the term we use. It's been used in some of the northern states, Utah and Arkansas. We got some of the information from them.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Some kind of machine.

MR. KEENER: The design you see on the screen right now is a design by one of our designers in our local office here. We're quite proud of that.

We also have a unique design planned on the Knox County project that I was referring to just a minute ago.

Mary Lou Ralls and her group is assisting with this endeavor and plans are to use silhouettes of local town's people to make up the stripes in the flag.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: That's a good idea. That's a great idea.

MR. KEENER: Our thought being providing that we will have less vandalism on our retaining walls and they will help maintain that and have a better reception.

Moving on to the category of "Build It." As you can see by this slide our letting history has varied greatly. In 1994, we let $17,000,000; in 2001, we peaked with $73,000,000. This year our anticipated letting is approximately $56,000,000.

It's often difficult to staff for these types of variations. I told you a little earlier we did things a little different. Here is one of the places we do things a little different.

In 2000 we anticipated the increase in letting in 2001, and to provide optimum use of our resources, we trained 21 maintenance employees to what we call crossover, to help us in the inspection of our construction work.

These employees received training at our district office and were qualified on all the testing procedures that were required for them to do. We still utilize these employees to supplement our work force in our construction area, when that becomes necessary.

Another area where we operate a little different --

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Terry, when a person gets cross-training like that, are they paid more?

MR. KEENER: We normally try to pay them a little bit more because of the value they provide.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: That would be a good investment of taxpayer money.

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir. We feel like the knowledge and experience would provide us additional resources and capability. We like to compensate them for it.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: That's the way it should be.

MR. KEENER: Another area where we operate a little different, for the last six hot mix seasons, we have centralized all our designs and our hot mix testing at the district laboratory. This maximizes the efficiency of our qualified inspectors.

We operate with three area offices. The Childress office is responsible for three counties.

The Wellington area office is 35 miles north of here, and is responsibile for four counties.

The Munday office is 110 miles to the southeast of here and it's responsible for six counties.

I stated earlier that we emphasize quality. In 1997 our seal coat operation was suffering some problems. Therefore, we went back to the basics and we held other first Seal Coat 101 training class. The training targets the issues that would improve quality and was a great success.

In 2000 we implemented a Hot Mix 101 training. Each spring we have our inspectors and invite our contractors to this training. We have had good participation with our contractors in this area and as a result we have seen a significant increase in to the quality of ride and the quality of pavement of our hot mix.

In addition to our highway construction we have several new facilities we are very proud of. We broke ground in 1998 for our new district office. And Commissioner Nichols and Commissioner Johnson, you will remember probably, that we dedicated that in December of 2000.

We have new maintenance facilities in Donley and Wheeler Counties. However, as you can see from the slides, we still have some that I feel like desperately need to be updated.

Brand new rest areas have been constructed in our district; one in Donley County and the other in Hardeman County. We had local participation in determining the theme of the parks.

The railroad theme used in the Donley County rest area was selected from a presentation by a student from Hedley High School.

Unique environmental aspects were also included in this park. We constructed a wetland and a storage tank for use in collecting runoff water for irrigation purposes.

As you can see in this next slide, Mr. Behrens still knows how to drive a railroad spike.

When it comes to aviation matters, we are somewhat limited on our expertise. Therefore, we utilize the agency's aviation division and our neighbor to the south from the Abilene District to assist us with these efforts.

Several of our general aviation airports have taken advantage of the RAMP program.

Additionally Knox City, Wheeler and Shamrock have capital improvement projects scheduled in the near future. Also, those of you who traveled by state plane, I am sure appreciated the fine facility we have here in Childress.

Moving on to our next category of our operation, "Use It." There are less than 40,000 vehicles registered in our district. A lot of the traffic through this district are Texans going skiing or hunting or the snow birds, headed south during the winter time.

And as has been alluded to also in the summer we have travelers from every direction crisscrossing and going through this district.

Permitted loads are a common sight moving through our district, including super heavies and manufactured homes. We recently have completed the rural ITS architecture for this district. We are now looking forward to implementing some of the recommendations, such as the use of dynamic message signs at strategic locations on Interstate 40 and U.S. 287.

This will provide traffic with an opportunity to seek alternative routes should it become necessary to close roads, like during snow or ice storms.

More and more our travelers are using the features in our rest areas, including the kiosks connecting to weather stations via the internet. The public can access the weather channel in the event of inclement weather and, if necessary, be safe in one of the tornado shelters that we have located in the rest areas.

Recently Hardeman and Donley County Safety Rest Areas were selected for a pilot project for the free wireless internet programs. Playgrounds, 24-hour attendants, security cameras, separate truck parking, and directions to local points of interest have made a noticeable increase in the number of travelers stopping for safety breaks at these facilities.

Our Traffic Safety Program is active in all 13 counties. We participate in a car seat check-up event, cooperating with the local hospital to train new parents on the proper use of child safety seats. We partner with the DPS safety education officer at our high schools in conducting programs on the hazards of drinking while under the influence of alcohol -- drinking and driving while under the influence of alcohol.

In the public transportation arena the program for the elderly and disabled averages approximately 10,000 trips per year, serving 191,000 passengers with just under a million miles being logged on 68 vehicles.

We have a new district public transportation coordinator and she has a unique opportunity of getting in on the ground floor of all the changes that are happening in this arena.

Moving now in to the area of "Maintain It." Here again is where we do things a little different in our district to optimize the use of resources. You may have noted on the organizational chart that there is a half an employee showing up in each one of our sections. This is because we have one office manager handling administrative responsibilities for two sections.

This is a challenge our office managers have met and provides us the opportunity to place more employees on the roadways.

Phones at these locations are forwarded via 800 numbers where they are always answered by a person. The public in our small communities always know how to reach the supervisor should it become necessary to get in touch with them. While this may not work in all of the districts in the state, it has worked very well in Childress.

We maintain a minimum staffing level of at least ten FTEs in our section. Half of our sections have 11 or fewer employees. The largest section has 15 FTEs. Counting the supervisor, this figures a ratio of about 38 lane miles per maintenance employee.

There are 500 pieces of major equipment in our fleet, which is valued at just over $5,000,000; 200 pieces of minor equipment, valued at just over $1,000,000. Average age of our equipment is 10 years old.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. KEENER: Which is the third oldest fleet in the state. The reason that we are running this older fleet is two-fold. First, we have some of the best mechanics in this part of the country to keep the equipment up and in good running condition.

Secondly, the boss gets blamed for robbing all the money out of the equipment budget to put on the highways.

Mr. Johnson, we have already achieved the goal established by the Texas Transportation Commission in August of 2001; the one that has 90 percent of our Texas roadways in good or better condition in ten years. The performance measures for the Childress District for 2001 and 2002 was better than 92 percent. My concern is, though, that last year our percentage dropped to just above 90 percent.

Our on-system bridges have an average sufficiency rate of 88 percent, which is above the State-wide average of 86 percent. However, we still have a lot of work to do in the area of our off-system bridges. Our sufficiency rating there is 71 percent compared to 76 percent state-wide average. Far below where we want to be.

I think we have gained ground on this in the last few years, especially due to the equivalent match program that we have with our counties. Our counties have taken advantage of this.

Moving on to the area of operation "Manage It". The 20 administrative employees in our district have been charged with being accountable for the effective use of the tax payers' dollars. I have asked each of our employees to use the Department resources just as if they were coming out of their own pocket.

I have a theory. If you watch your pennies, your dollars have a way of taking care of themselves. And I believe we do a pretty good job in this area. We continually scrub our budget down to maximize the use of every penny that we are allocated.

We don't tie up a lot of money in our inventory. Our warehouse does a tremendous job of managing our turnover rate with our stock. Our current turnover rate is 3.2 times per year, far better then the two and a half times per year that we are setting as our goal.

We manage other inventory for just in time delivery. Our regional warehouse in Post delivers directly to our maintenance sections at least once a week.

Safety. I'm very concerned about the safety. Any fatality is bad. However I certainly don't want to have a fatality with any of our employees, at least while on my watch. In 2001 and 2002 we received the Vehicle Safety Bonus Award of $400,000. We used this bonus money to purchase small loaders for each of our maintenance sections, and truck mounted attenuators. I have set a goal to bring back that safety award to the Childress District. I think we can use the money.

We place great emphasis on our work zone safety. Our effort to reduce the number of work zone accidents includes the use of a District Traffic Safety Team. This group approves all our traffic control plans before they go to contract. This group also makes random road trips to review and provide recommendations for the improvements of the traffic control on our maintenance and construction projects.

Additionally, I've requested this group review all the circumstances involved in any fatality that we have in the Childress District.

In conclusion, we realize the Childress District is but a very small part of the overall department. Our goal is to move people and goods through our district safely and efficiently, preserve our roads and bridges and promote the economic vitality for this area as best we can. We believe that this department expects it and the public deserves it.

Before I turn this back over to questions, I would like to publicly thank everyone that worked so hard in our district to make this and bring this all together. Thanks go to each of you.

Commissioners, administration, again, thank you. We always enjoy your visits.

Commissioner Nichols, next time you come through Childress, even if you have a stuffed baboon sitting shotgun with you, stop by and say, "Hi".

I will now turn this back to questions that you might have. Please be reminded that I'm slightly hard of hearing, so I request that you talk slowly and speak up. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Okay. Ted.

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: You say your population is ten percent over 65, or 20?

MR. KEENER: The population in this district is 21 and a half percent that is 65 years of age and older. Ten percent is the statewide average.

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: I was sitting with some fabulous ladies last night at dinner. And they were relating to me the story that in the district that you have three sets of twins being born here in the next number of months. Should bring down that average a little bit.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. KEENER: I expect on that, that was the official census we had in 2000. Since then we may have had a change in that percentage.

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: You're doing a fabulous job with the resources that you have. And I commend you that for that, Terry, and your people. Again, as Commissioner Nichols alluded last night, the backbone of this organization are the people.

All the nice updated trucks that you have, current trucks that you have shown in that picture, don't mean a thing unless you have the right folks operating it and running it, the operation. And I commend those folks. Congratulations.

MR. KEENER: Thank you.

COMMISSIONER ANDRADE: Direct point of reference, you certainly know how to use your resources well. I must tell you, of all the districts I've seen, the creativity that you've got here is just great. Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to that mural when we can see it.

You know, I've encouraged the districts to be creative and have some color and be reflective of the community. And evidently in Childress you are doing that. So thank you very much for doing the great job you're doing here.

MR. KEENER: I can't take all the credit for that. The staff helped put some of that together. And they can share the blame for some of it.

COMMISSIONER ANDRADE: I am really looking forward to seeing that.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Thank you very much for an excellent report. That's as good a report as I have seen anywhere in the state. I have a couple of comments and questions.

One of the tours we took yesterday was through the truck and automobile museum in town. When you showed that truck, I thought that was a shot from the museum.

(LAUGHTER)

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: The -- I had a couple of questions -- on your construction levels --

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: You were talking about the spikes, the ups and downs, peaks and valleys. And I know it's difficult to keep your work load steady, as close as you can with the people you've got. And when you hit some of those lulls -- and I was particularly interested in cross-training and stuff you were doing -- but when you hit some of those lulls, as I understand some of your designers and technical people do design work for some of the other districts.

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I remember one time when I was looking at the engineering department, I think they were working design on a project in Laredo, or somewhere.

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir. We have done that and we've done some bridge design in the Dallas district also.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I think that's an excellent utilization of people and good training for people, engineers here, not only to keep them busy, but to learn, interact with some of the other areas of the State, bring ideas back. That's not only to you but the administration, I think that's an excellent program.

You've got good people who want to live here, and it's a shame sometimes when they feel like they have to go somewhere else to have some of those opportunities. And they can do it right here in their backyard.

Other question was on your Super 2 program, on the roadway, your passing lane program, are you funding that by using your district discretionary, money? Because we don't have a statewide program, I don't believe.

MR. KEENER: No. Discretionary.

VOICE: Category 1 funds.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I think that is a very good program and I think very practical program. We have a lot of roadways in other areas of the State that are two-lane, traffic count can't get anywhere near close to high enough to go in to a four-lane. You've still got hills up and down and agricultural related equipment and trucks, trailers, tractors.

And somebody gets behind those things, particularly if you've got a rolling area, you know, the first five minutes they are pretty patient. Ten or 15 minutes of that and they're going to start taking chances, coming around. And the Super 2 program is a good way to give them a chance to get past that so they know the next hill they can get a place to pass.

We might want to look -- I would like to take a look at maybe applying that Super 2 -- because other districts have done some of that -- take some kind of program approach, statewide approach.

MR. KEENER: We have presented that and some other districts have learned about that approach and started using it.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: That's a real compliment to you and your staff, that they're doing that. I would like to take a look statewide, maybe a category of one our programs or something.

Anyway, very good presentation. Thank you.

MR. KEENER: Thank you. I appreciate that. I would like to recognize Marty Smith and his group, were the innovators of the Super 2 project. They've done a real good job.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Terry, did I understand from the Mayor you have been here 31 years?

MR. KEENER: Yes, sir. Been here since 1971.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What grade was the Judge in that year?

MR. KEENER: When you come to a place that accepts you, you enjoy the lifestyle and all, you have a tendency to stay. And I certainly have enjoyed that.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What an incredible report. I think I will echo what Robert said. This is as good a report not only in presentation form, as Ric pointed out, but also in content.

Several things sort of jumped off the screen at me and Robert alluded to one. And that is utilization of your resources here. And the most important resource is employees.

The one that jumped off at me was the way you stretched your maintenance budget by having people cover more than one area. And the fact that some people -- I guess the average was 38 miles, lane miles per person, is incredible, when you think about how many lane miles you have in the district and how, you know, large, geographically, this district is.

Secondly, I wanted to laud you on your pavement story. Clearly, that was one of the goals of a group that I put together, to establish meaningful and measurable goals for the department. And it remains one of our priorities, and will forever, I hope. Because a smooth ride is whatever everybody who uses our system wants, and you appear to be well in advance of that. And I know you will stay ahead of the curve, so to speak. And I want to congratulate you on that.

MR. KEENER: We certainly are going to do our best, yes, sir.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Those are the two that happened to jump off the screen at me. And overall that's a terrific report. I salute your leadership and also the work of the 250 FTEs you have in the district. This is, as I mentioned this morning at breakfast, this is a fiber and fabric of Texas right here.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Good job. Good presentation. What jumped out at me most of all is what I commented on, and that was the cross-training and then paying people for being more valuable in their cross-training. And I think that's a good idea and one we might want to suggest to the other district engineers, as we look it, if it's not already being looked at.

Great presentation. Once again showed us a great time. We appreciate everything you did laying it out for us and we're proud of the work you and your employees do for the great state, here in Childress.

MR. KEENER: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: For the audience's purposes, we're going to take a ten-minute rest break and allow people who need to leave, the opportunity to leave without disruption.

There will be department business that will affect Childress County, that will be taken up afterwards. And all of you are encouraged to return and learn about how we do business. But you're not expected to. But in ten minutes we will continue our normal monthly meeting.

(RECESS TAKEN)

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I would like to note for the record, notice of this meeting containing all items on the agenda was filed with the Office of Secretary of State at 1:55 P.M. on July the 21st, 2004.

First item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes of the June Commission meeting. Do I have a motion?

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: So move?

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: Second.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Have a motion and second. All those in favor will indicate by saying "aye".

COMMISSIONERS: Aye.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: All opposed no?

(NO RESPONSE)

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Motion carries.

Mike Behrens, I turn the meeting over to you.

MR. BEHRENS: Go to Agenda Item No. 2 which is Public Transportation. Sue Bryant will present two Minute Orders concerning funding for Public Transportation.

MS. BRYANT: Good morning, Commissioners; Mr. Behrens. My name is Susan Bryant, and I am the Director of the Public Transportation Division.

For your consideration this morning, is a Minute Order, which provides funding for Intercity Bus Transportation in Texas. This Minute Order would approve the award of $5,225,364.00 of currently available Federal Section 5311 funds.

By regulation, 15 percent of the 5311 funds are to be set aside to enhance and improve intercity bus service. And once the government certifies the intercity service is adequate in the state. The projects recommended for approval were selected based on responses to requests for proposals issued on February 20th of this year.

32 proposals were received requesting $14,000,000.00, for operating, facilities construction, and renovation, vehicle replacement, planning and marketing. The proposals are based on the technical merits of the projects and the qualifications of the entity and reviewed for relative merits with priority given to operating assistance to avoid closure of existing routes.

18 projects are recommended and are listed in Exhibit A, in alphabetical order by the project sponsor. The well publicized closure of intercity bus routes across the U.S. in the north and northwest, and the closure of a couple of smaller routes in Texas have highlighted the critical needs for this service.

The amount requested for immediate commencement in Category A is the combination of unobligated amounts from previous years and the available appropriations for FY'04. The remaining for Category B would be funded with the expected balance of fiscal year '04 funds, plus 1.37 million of expected fiscal year '05 funds.

I would look to highlight just one project on this list, because it is of particular interest to this area.

This project is for the Texas-New Mexico and Oklahoma Coaches. And it covers seven routes in seven TxDOT districts. These districts are Abilene, Amarillo, Childress, El Paso, Lubbock, Odessa and Wichita Falls. These routes from this project provided the only access to the intercity bus network for 42 communities.

Your consideration and approval of this Minute Order will be appreciated.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Members, there are no comments from the public on this particular agenda item. Do you have questions for Ms. Bryant? Comments?

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I just have two observations. I guess one is an observation; one is a comment.

First of all, we received a well thought-out well-written document, letter, whatever, from John Wilson, who is in Lubbock. We wish that we could increase funding for everywhere. This is a balancing act. And it's unfortunate some areas are going to get less, some perhaps a little more. But, you know, that's the economic reality of what we've been trying to accomplish.

Two, I just wanted to laud you. I know it's been topsy-turvy few months for you trying to juggle a lot of balls, if you will. And to land where we have an enormous amount of patience and understanding on your behalf and also the people you work with, I wanted to salute you for that.

And Mr. Chairman, that's my comment.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Other comments? Motion?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: So move.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Second?

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I have a motion, I have a second. All in favor signify by saying aye.

COMMISSIONERS: Ayes.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Opposed, no?

(NO RESPONSE)

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Motion carries.

Sue, before you leave this item. Probably this document has been available to me in the past and I just overlooked it.

In the event it hasn't been available to me in the past, whoever prepared this objective summary, this is an excellent document.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you. I will pass that on to the staff members.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: It was a good, quick reference document to help me consolidate my thoughts. And I appreciate very much this format.

MS. BRYANT: That was Charlie Sullivan in our office, along with others, and he will be very happy about that.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I like that. Normal people can understand things like that.

MS. BRYANT: I could understand it so that's--

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: You describe yourself as normal?

MS. BRYANT: For your consideration this morning, also a Minute Order which provides the formula funding for the small urban and rural transportation systems.

This Minute Order would allocate state funds of $29,741,067. These funds have been allocated according to the formula approved by the Commission on June 24th. According to the formula $9,562,571 have been allocated among 30 present smaller providers and 20,178,496 have been allocated among 39 rural providers.

Due largely to the incorporation of what has been, under a previous formula, set aside for Commission selected project funds, no rural providers will see a reduction of their state funds this coming year. And in fact, then funds increased by a minimum of approximately five percent per provider.

Due to inclusion of the so-called enclave cities, as per legislation, some small urban providers on the other hand, do see a reduction in funds, up to 6.9 percent in some cases. We will work with those providers so that the impact of these reductions will be as slight as possible.

In addition, we are working with the Public Transportation Advisory Committee on further refinements and updates to the funding formula, such that greater emphasis is placed on performance and the focus is more on people than the process.

And I would like to make a quick recognition. The Commission members and those of us who have been blessed with the privilege of being here for the last couple of days, have enjoyed I think very comfortable transportation the last few days.

And he doesn't know I'm going to do this, but I would like to recognize Gerald Payton, who is the transportation director of Panhandle Community Services. And we have been enjoying the vans for a couple of days. If Gerald would wave his hand.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Where are you, Gerald? Stand up, Gerald. Take a hand, Gerald.

(APPLAUSE)

MS. BRYANT: We have enjoyed the transportation.

That's the Minute Order. Your consideration and approval of this Minute Order will be appreciated.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Members, we do have three witnesses on this item. If it's acceptable, we'll go ahead and take their comments before we discuss this.

Norma Zamora. You've come a long way, madam.

MS. ZAMORA: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Norma Zamora. I am the director for Brownsville Urban System, the public transportation provider, a department of the City of Brownsville.

First of all, I would like to thank you for allowing this opportunity to speak to you. However, I really must -- I am really concerned and must express my disappointment and frustration as to how the state formula allocation turned out.

All along the entire process developing a formula we have been provided files, tables and drafts, which illustrated the projected transit system's estimate allocations based on the changes that were being considered, of which we used to project our budget for fiscal year '05. We had determined based on the information provided a decrease of approximately $3,000. And we were able to make provisions for that.

However, this week I logged in to your website to find out what the final numbers came out and what was going to be presented to you today. And I find that Brownsville Urban System will stand to lose approximately $45,000; $42,000 more than we expected.

That the total small urban allocation decreased from approximately 10,000,000 to 9.5 million.

That the caps that were to be held constant and at the current levels on the enclave cities are no longer shown. But, instead show all enclave cities realized an increase in state funding.

19 out of the 30 urban areas shown, indicates a decrease in funding. Seven stayed at the estimated projected level, with the four enclave cities realizing an increase in funds.

I don't understand why there is a significant difference from what was being provided as projected estimates, to the final numbers being presented to you today.

Like many areas of Texas, Brownsville experienced a significant population growth in the 1990s. Between 1990 and 2000 the population of the city increased more than 40 percent, to approximately 140,000 people. And the city limits expanded from 37 to 120 square miles; 120 percent increase.

We provide for fixed routes and provide transit service for approximately 1.6 million passengers annually. Brownsville Urban Service has not been able to keep up with this growth, we have been experiencing and continue to experience. This short-fall in funding will further impact our ability to address the needs and demands for transit services in our area.

I am respectfully requesting the information that was used to determine the final allocation being proposed to you today. It will help me to better explain and inform our decrease in funding to our mayor, commissioners, city manager and finance director as we move in to the fiscal year '05 budget.

We will certainly continue to work with your staff in developing a formula for fiscal year '06 that will hopefully have a better outcome for small urban systems. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Okay. Hang on just a second. Some members might want to ask you a few questions. Before I ask you to do that members, Sue, I'm going to ask you in a moment to come up and just give me a brief explanation in answer to her questions. She deserves an answer from the Commission. Now, members, dialogue, questions comments?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: First of all, we are concerned and are certainly very sensitive to what you're saying. We recognize the importance of transit, not only in your area, but other areas of the state. As you are aware there's only so much money to go around, and it's real difficult to make decisions from our standpoint, as to who gets it and who doesn't.

So, the Advisory Committee, which has taken on -- took on a very difficult task of seeing all areas of the state and trying to make recommendations to us. Previously, some of these formulas were locked in by the legislature, state legislature. And the state legislature I think recognized there were some inequities. And they changed it to give us the authority and the direction to try to come up with a way that was more balanced.

Now, I will tell you, in answer to your question, I think, what I have seen, is that we receive a lot of federal money, statewide, particularly small urban money, that came into the state and that was distributed for a number of years to the small urbans that had transit authorities.

All of them did not have transit authorities, so in effect the ones that were operating were getting the, not only the money that they normally would have gotten, on the federal formula, but they were receiving also the money from the small urban areas that had not set up a transit area yet. Recognizing there were people in those communities who had transit needs also.

Over the period -- I know since I've been on the Commission, a number of those small urbans did open up and establish transit systems. And they have -- we started out with basically zero base.

So you have a population, you have a need, but because the existing small urbans had already received their money, they didn't have any money. So all of a sudden you end up with a huge disparity between those who were getting money with needs and those who were getting no money with needs.

And as that developed over a period of several years, that's when we recognized, and I think the legislature recognized, we had to go in there and balance some of that back out. You can't balance it without some going up and some going down. Doesn't take away from your needs, but it does help theirs. And that is the real answer, I believe, to your question, you didn't know what happened.

As far as the timing, you said a report a few months ago was done with some projections and new numbers today. As the Advisory Commission -- Advisory Committee did their work, I think the Department, the division was in good faith, trying to show, to the best of their knowledge, what the impact would be, dollarwise, under each scenario.

And there were some facts that came out late in this, that changed some of those numbers dramatically. Wasn't our fault; wasn't your fault; wasn't their fault. But those were the facts. And based on the criteria that's where the numbers came out. I think they feel just as bad about it as we do. But when you look at those facts, the answer still ended up where it is.

Now, we're not through. We have openly said over the last ten months, that we know there's more to go. We know that as we move in to the next 12 months, we are not through reviewing. But we have a deadline that we had to lock in, so y'all have a budget that you can work with while we're continuing this process.

We're going to be taking on Health and Human Services Transportation. How should that be blended with the local transit provider? Should we have two sets of buses running by each other, down the same streets, going different directions, or can we integrate that? And that's part of what the Advisory Committee, and staff and some outside people are going to be studying.

We will be working real close with you and the other transit providers to try to work through this. So we do feel for you, but we also feel for those communities that were getting very little. So I hope that answers some of your question. If not, we're not through. Hopefully, we'll get this fixed.

MS. ZAMORA: And we will continue to work with TxDOT staff on coordinating efforts with the Human Services money, hopefully be able to realize some funding opportunities there for our system.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Other comments from other Commissioners?

Let me just say again, thank you for coming so far. And I'm going to ask Sue to, from the Department's perspective, respond to your question. You deserve an answer to your question.

Let me also suggest that we're aware of a pending toll project that your city and county perhaps will advance in the next few months. And let me ask you to remind the mayor and city manager that the revenues, if the Regional Mobility Authority is created, the revenues from the toll project could be a source of revenue to assist public transit.

It is specifically one of the goals of Governor Perry to create an environment where regions can begin to generate their own transportation money for their own well-defined transportation needs. So let me just encourage you to encourage the mayor and the city manager to support the Commissioners' efforts to form the RMA toll project. Excellent toll project. We've looked at it several times.

MS. ZAMORA: I know there's a need for one.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: It will be a great thing for the southern tip of our great state.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Mr. Chairman, related to what the Chairman was talking about, the possibility of the toll road. Not only generating funds in the future, through the Mobility Authority, but a lot of people are not aware, that are becoming aware that toll roads create a thing called toll credits.

And the federal government will allow us, through the Commission, to apply those toll credits and it can be used for transits to offset dollar for dollar local managements. So what the county or city or community has to contribute, it would go to those toll roads. We can apply that toll credit increase. You have reduced your match and still use the extra, keep the cash, and it's beneficial in several other directions.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I just bring it up because the Commission's sort of way high level goal is to interlock and make inter-dependent the various types of transportation, organizations and facilities, particularly in our urbanized regions, so they become codependent upon each other and not on big daddy in Austin and Uncle Sam in Washington.

We would like our communities to become more and more independent in the generation of their funds and in the disposition of their funds. And we think that particular project, specifically, could help the transit system in your part of the State.

We really appreciate you driving all the way up here. We are aware that the upside of meeting in Pharr and Houston and Childress as we bring our process to the public. The downside is those who would normally drive to the central location of Austin, Texas have to drive further. And we really appreciate you doing that.

MS. ZAMORA: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Sue, would you give a quick comment to -- Ms. Zamora has been very gracious and professional and deserves a gracious and professional response to that.

MS. BRYANT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In addition to Mr. Commissioner's Nichols' comments, which I will not repeat, because he very much has articulated a number of reasons for the changes.

I would like to, if I may, just add one more to that rather long list of having several iterations above estimated dollar amounts for the formula. And in doing that I would like to recognize Richard Monroe and his staff in the office of General Counsel.

Because, as the Commissioners are aware, there have been a number of questions about the so-called enclave cities; are they in; are they out; are they capped; are not capped; at what point are they capped. And a pretty significant reason for the kinds of fluctuations that our staff, the staff back in Austin has been dealing with, is working on that particular issue. It is a significant topic in regards to the formula.

We have gone back with general counsel several times, to the legislation, the law in that regard. And in order to be consistent with the interpretation of the legislation, there have been numerous changes in how much -- whether or not, first of all, and then how much of the formula funding actually must -- needs to go to the enclave cities.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: So a short answer to her concerns would be at one point there was a set of numbers --

MS. BRYANT: That's correct.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: -- that presumed a conclusion about the law that we realized might not be accurate. So we asked our legal staff to give us advice on how the law -- now our rules -- but how the law actually read.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: And we concluded that the pool of money available to Brownsville and others under the previously agreed formula by our Advisory Committee, was not as large as we thought. We had to reallocate.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: That was the explanation for her $3,000 loss, and the 42,000.

MS. BRYANT: That's correct, yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Commissioners, any other dialogue we need to have with Sue on Ms. Zamora?

MS. BRYANT: May I add one more thing? Because she did specifically make a request. And I wanted to comment on that. Because the staff in Austin -- we have already committed to the providers, that pending Commission action today, the details of the formula numbers, the multitudinous spread sheets that we used to reach those final numbers, we have committed to insure those are available almost immediately to everyone.

If the Commission did something different and we needed to go back and make any further changes, then obviously those particular spread sheets would not apply. So we have committed to all the providers that information will be available as soon as there is an approval of the minute orders, if there is approval of the minute orders.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Sue, during the next year, will it be possible under the policy and regulations, directions we've taken, for systems such as the Brownsville Urban System to compete more for Health and Human Services transit contracts.

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir. That's true also. And we have been letting those providers know that we are rebidding those contracts.

And in addition Norma and I actually had a very short conversation, but we are encouraging providers to come to the next Commission meeting so that they can be a part of and listen to the discussion item on alternative public transportation financing.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: It's just really important. You know, the Governor and the legislature specifically gave us this for the purpose of eliminating duplication. Not to reduce the budget --

MS. BRYANT: Right.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: -- but to offer a greater degree of service --

MS. BRYANT: Right.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: -- to all Texans. And it's just important to us --

MS. BRYANT: Right. Not to reduce service but to actually see what we could do.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Right. If we could find a way to provide Ms. Zamora another 500,000 a year, if she'll help us on our Health and Human Service contracts, that's the goal.

MS. BRYANT: Right. And she and I talked a little bit about that. But we obviously have a lot more discussion to go on that.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: John, if you don't object, I will take you next and take Sam last, if that's all right.

MR. WILSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have provided you with some written comments but I think I would like to diverse from them and not go exactly with them because some of the comments that have already been made.

I would like to emphasize a little more about the enclave cities. Those four cities do not have fixed route systems. Between all four of them they carry less than 200,000 people. They mostly or demand-responsive and which generally are more expensive than fixed route.

I also testified before the legislature at the House Transportation Committee back in the mid-90s and Representative Fred Hill pointedly asked me, "John, it's wrong for us to fund these cities above what we are paying now, because they can join regional transit systems, and we cannot."

And what he was referring to -- he's from Richardson -- and he would like that money, you know, give them some incentive to join their DART, or in Fort Worth, *MetroDart to join. But that's so -- the sole reason for the enclave city being frozen at the current level was because the rural cities and the small urbans cannot get more money. I mean, we are limited. We are not asking for more money today. We are just asking that those enclave cities be frozen.

Your Public Transportation Advisory Committee voted to freeze those cities at the 2004 level. So I mean, I'm agreeing with them. I'm agreeing with what that did.

The other thing that was brought up, the second item that shifted the funds -- and this was all in the last month, by the way. I mean, this is not what we have seen in the past. This is in the last month.

But the other thing, we have traditionally had a 35/65 split, between the small urban and the rural. And I can't see why that would be different today. But yet with the numbers that just came out it split 32/68. In other words that three percent is now $500,000. And spread over 29 cities, that's a lot of money; that's a lots of deficit -- for 30 cities -- to absorb.

And I'm just asking that that split be as it traditionally has been all along. We're not upset with the 65 going to rural and 35 going to the small cities. We'd just like for that to be same, though not get any worse than it already is.

So those are two areas that I am concerned about that. I know that Norma already stated those to you, but those are the two things that I am concerned about.

I gave my testimony. I mean, you have it, and I wrote it in probably a better way than I just got through saying it. But I did want to tell you those are my concerns.

Thank for your time and consideration.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: We're going to ask Mr. Monroe to come up and talk about the enclave cities in a moment.

Any questions or dialogue any members need to have with Mr. Wilson?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I just want to reiterate my original comment. I mean this is very well thought out and well written. I wish we could act on all these things and had all the resources in the world, but we don't.

MR. WILSON: I understand.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: And, Sue, you should be getting ready, because I'm going to want a brief response on 32/68 versus 35/65.

Richard, can you visit with us, or are you comfortable talking to us about this enclave city business?

MR. MONROE: I regret to say, Mr. Chairman, I'm not comfortable talking about it at all. Its an arcane, esoteric area of the law. And one of my staff attorneys, Jennifer Saldano has been really working with the Public Transportation Division. In this case I would imagine that Sue is much more expert, much better informed than I am.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Thank you, sir. One of the reasons I like you, you get to the point.

MR. MONROE: If I understood the enclave city problem we have, is that even despite the chairman's comments during the legislative session, despite the clear expressed wish of the legislature that non-enclave cities be gently guided toward joining transit systems, Ms. Saldano concluded after looking at the law, the legislature itself didn't allow us to do that. Is that correct? If it's not correct tell me?

MS. BRYANT: I'm going to try to-- I'm not going to be Jennifer and I don't know that particular area of the law as she does.

The enclave cities are capped by legislation. But they're not capped at the FY '04 level. They're capped at the level that was set at the time by the legislation. So therefore, there is a dollar amount spread that has allowed them to, by formula, to see some decrease.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: In our --

MS. BRYANT: There was a legislative cap.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: There was no way we could cap them at some previous amount. We had to -- we have to live with what the legislation directs?

MS. BRYANT: We couldn't have capped them at the current amount. We had to cap them, according to the legislation, at the time they were legislatively capped.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: And we have already begun preparation for the '05 session to address this problem, or to at least to articulate it, so that if it be the wish of the legislature to truly encourage the enclave cities to move on, that's what we will do.

MS. BRYANT: That's my understanding.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Now, as to the 65/35, 62/38, I think we know the reason why, but share with the Commission why.

MS. BRYANT: Okay. John is absolutely correct. Historically, traditionally because of the way the formula was constructed earlier, because of the way other legislation was constructed, that percentage was a 65/35 split.

However, because the formula now bases that split on population and land area, it still comes, as he mentioned, close to the 65/35 split. But it is not quite that. It is off by a couple of percentage points.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: By half a mill.

MS. BRYANT: By a half a million in terms of dollars, that's correct. Because of population -- it's a split of population, 75 percent; and land area, 25 percent, that creates then the total percentage split; not just a dollar amount split. And that created the difference.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Can I make a comment related to that?

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Please.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: In trying to develop a criteria that's fair across the state, I know that we all made comments as Commissioners. I know the Advisory Committee went out and took input from citizens.

And one thing that's very apparent. You can devise by population, but we all recognize that geography is an important part. When you have people closer together, it certainly costs one amount to drive them around.

The Childress District is probably a perfect example of just the extreme opposite. 41,000 people living in 13 counties. It obviously costs more per person to go pick them up and take them to the hospital, the doctor or whatever, take them back. And it does cost more. So there is a geography factor in -- and I think we all recognize that. So that's why that factor is in there. Somehow or another that factor will always have to be in there.

And so we're not through, like I said awhile ago. And we've got another -- hopefully, we can get through all this in another year. But even after that it may take a year or two past that to iron out all the kinks. That's why the geography factor is in there. This is a perfect example of a district where that applies.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Other questions or comments?

Thank you, Sue. Thank you, John.

We have our last witness -- what was your name?

MR. RUSSELL: I forget. Ric Williamson.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: My very, very, very, first chairman in the legislature. The Honorable Sam Russell from Upper East Texas.

MR. RUSSELL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission.

First of all, upfront, I want you to realize that during my tenure in the legislature I never saw a gasoline tax that I did not like.

(LAUGHTER)

MR. RUSSELL: That may have been the last time the gasoline tax was increased.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: It was.

MR. RUSSELL: Have some matters at hand. I do want to thank you, Mr. Chairman for the warm welcome that you gave Mrs. Edna Johnson, who is the acting director of the Texas Transit Association.

First of all, for the record, my name is Sam Russell and I am general counsel for the Texas Transit Association.

In fact, one of the members transcribed from the Department records the exchange between you and Ms. Johnson. And I've heard members of the association refer to it as a breath of fresh air for the association, and hopefully the dawn of a new relationship between the association and the agency.

Of course, we're not always going to agree, even though I'm sure you and I did every time in the legislation. But as you can see the association has some very passionate members who believe in what they're doing.

I know this has been a fast process since back earlier in the year, of developing of the new formula for rural and small urban providers. We specifically want to thank the Department and the division and PTAC for all the hard work that's gone in to what has come out of all the meetings that have been held this year.

And we certainly appreciate the commitment on your part to continue to work on this process, and define and fine-tune the formula. Because as you can see, there have been some unexpected results that have occurred.

Of course, with having the statute and formula as it was for approximately ten years, it did bring a certain amount of stability and predictability to the industry, to where they could adequately plan and project for their activities in the future. And as Mrs. Bryant indicated -- and we certainly applaud that effort -- as you make your awards and enter in to your contracts with the providers, we would certainly suggest and ask that you make those facts and figures that have gone in to how they arrive at the specific awards, available to the providers so they have some idea and perhaps can plan their activities in the future.

We certainly want to pledge to you to work with you in any way that we can in the future. We have a wealth of knowledge in this industry, from metropolitan agencies to the smallest of the rural providers, that we certainly want to share with you and hope that you take advantage of.

Again, thank for what you've done on this effort.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Questions for Mr. Russell or comments to be directed at Mr. Russell?

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: I have a question. It would be your recommendation to go back to the legislature to clearly define what they may -- they did not define in the last session as to the enclave city issue?

MR. RUSSELL: As I recall I think the enclave city issue may have been in the statute that also adopted the funding formula back in '95. And quite frankly, I don't know what specifically -- I don't recall what that said in that legislation. But I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed closely. And it may be one that can only be addressed with legislation.

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: It may be the difficulty you have in addressing that question as some of those enclaves cities are, who are also some of your members.

MR. RUSSELL: Right.

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but at the same time it seems to me this it where this needs to be cleared up.

MR. RUSSELL: Very likely. If the legislature deems it a problem and deems it worthy of one that needs to be fixed, then that's probably where it will probably have to be.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: We recognize that's one of the issues. And I think meeting before last we made some comments related to the fact that over the next 12 months, we directed not only on PTAC but our division administration to try to work with those groups. Because it appears to some of us that it would make more sense for enclave cities to join the regional transit system. That will meet a greater need to the public.

However, in the meantime, we recognize there are people in those communities who also need transit, and just because the problem hasn't been worked out doesn't mean that they don't need the same support and help that we are trying to provide all the rest of the state. And I think this, in the meantime, does give them money for transit for those people, for those needs, until we can get it worked out. I'm hoping those communities can work it out. Certainly try to encourage that, I think.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Anything else?

MR. RUSSELL: The only other comment I would add is -- I think it's been alluded to this morning about the use of toll credits.

We appreciate the fact that you have put on your agenda for next month a discussion of use of toll credits as an alternative source of financing of public transportation. And I think we'll have some people there to offer some input in regards to that.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: How long have you been general counsel for TTA?

MR. RUSSELL: Since about the middle of July.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: They made a hell of a good decision, Sam. I look forward to working with you.

MR. RUSSELL: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: You're a good man.

Sue, anything else? Want to close on your Minute Order?

MS. BRYANT: Yes, sir. And thank you. And I would like to take this opportunity to address some of the concerns, because they are -- those providers are needing some funds, compared to what they received, are legitimately concerned for the customers they are serving.

And neglected earlier to recognize the Rolling Plains also as one of the providers of one of our transportation that we have been using in the last couple of days.

Again, I want to reiterate the commitment that we all have, that we all share, to performance and to relooking at the refinements and the formula so that we can do better, continue to do better.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Any other discussion with or questions for Sue Bryant, members, before I consider a motion?

I'll consider a motion?

COMMISSIONER HOUGHTON: So move.

COMMISSIONER ANDRADE: Second.

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and second. All those in favor will signify by saying aye.

COMMISSIONERS: (Ayes)

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Opposed, no.

(NO RESPONSE)

CHAIRMAN WILLIAMSON: Motion carries. Thank you, Sue.

MR. BEHRENS: Mr. Chairman, No. 3. This will be our proposed rules for adoption. First being Agenda Item 3a(1), Environmental Rule, which will be presented by Dianna Noble.

MS. NOBLE: Good morning, Commissioners, Mr. Behrens, Roger.

For the record, my name is Dianna Noble. I'm the Director of Environmental Affairs for TxDOT.

Item 3a(1) proposes the repeal and final change to the proposed new section concerning environmental review and public involvement for transportation projects.

Transportation Code 201.604 requires that the Texas Transportation Committee -- Commission provide by rule for the review of TxDOT Transportation projects. The environmental review and public involvement rules were first adopted in 1995. Section 201.604 also requires that the Commission, after a public hearing, review at least once every five years these rules and make appropriate changes.

Based on those reviews, the rules were amended in 1997, 1998 and 2003. During the Commission public hearing of December 18th, 2003, I described the process the Department would undertake in its most recent examination and review of its environmental review and public involvement rule.

No comments from the public were received at the public hearing nor subsequent to the public hearing on the -- on the existing rules. The examining of the existing rules indicated that revisions were necessary. Revisions were necessary in order to accommodate the new authority given to the department, under House Bill 3588.

The proposed new rules also needed revision in order to clarify environmental review documentation, coordination, public involvement, and notice requirement.

For public transportation and aviation projects, the existing 2.44 and 2.44 -- 2.46 sections were deleted. These projects now would be in proposed Section 2.42 and 2.43.

New section 2.40 describes the purpose of the environmental rules.

New 2.41 describes the definitions of terms used in the rules.

New 2.42 titled federal aid transportation projects, describes environmental review requirements for projects that may utilize federal aid funds, federal transit funds, and require the approval of the federal highway administration, the Federal Aviation Authority or the Federal Transit Administration.

New 2.43, titled nonfederal aid transportation projects, details the environmental documentation, coordination, public involvement, notice and mitigation procedures for transportation projects.

New 2.44 describes the environment