Texas Department of Transportation Commission Meeting

Dewitt C. Greer Building
125 East 11th Street
Austin, Texas

Thursday, September 30, 2004

COMMISSION MEMBERS:

RIC WILLIAMSON, CHAIRMAN
JOHN W. JOHNSON
ROBERT L. NICHOLS
HOPE ANDRADE
TED HOUGHTON, JR.

STAFF:

MICHAEL W. BEHRENS, P.E., Executive Director
STEVE SIMMONS, Deputy Executive Director
RICHARD MONROE, General Counsel
ROGER POLSON, Executive Assistant to the Deputy Executive Director
DEE HERNANDEZ, Chief Minute Clerk

PROCEEDINGS

MR. WILLIAMSON: For the record, it is 9:13 a.m. and I would like to call the September meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission to order. It is a pleasure to have you all here this morning, particularly those of you who have traveled from the far ends of our great state to attend the meeting; we appreciate the fact that you've taken time out of your day to be with us.

Please note for the record that public notice of this meeting, containing all the items on the agenda, was filed with the Office of Secretary of State at 3:05 p.m. on September 22, 2004.

Before we begin today's meeting, would you please indulge the commission by stopping and taking a moment -- as I am going to do -- to locate your cell phone, your pager, your PDA, your Dewberry, whatever it is you have, and put it on the silent or vibrate mode so we won't be disrupted in our meeting. Thank you.

Normally our custom is to open the meeting with comments from each commission member, and we'll do that in a moment, but I need to announce ahead of time, Commission Member Andrade needs to leave rather early today to tend to personal family medical business -- and we all will have your husband in our thoughts and prayers, Hope -- and so what I'm going to do is allow the commission to make their opening remarks and them I'm going to ask Commissioner Andrade to specifically ask questions or raise issues on today's agenda that are of personal concern to her. And Mr. Monroe, I think, is in the audience and will make sure we don't do anything wrong. This will allow the commissioner to address her concerns before she has to leave, and then we'll proceed in the regular order of business.

So having said that, as is our custom, we will begin with Commissioner Houghton from the far reaches of far West Texas to the far reaches of this podium.

MR. HOUGHTON: Far, far West Texas; we keep getting farther, but we're coming closer because of our vote a week or so ago.

Good morning. I'm glad to be here and especially with a couple of items on the agenda. We've got some folks here from the Capitol Area Regional Transportation Planning Organization and they've got some interesting things that will help mobility in the area; and secondly, the folks from Cameron County, this is going to be an exciting day regarding their RMA, their regional mobility authority.

I'm looking forward to this day, and Hope, the best to your family.

MS. ANDRADE: Thank you.

Good morning. It's great to be back in Austin. I'm glad to report that I-35 did not have major congestion problems this morning; it only took me 45 minutes to get here.

I'd like to welcome everybody in the audience and thank all of my fellow commissioners for their thoughts and prayers for my husband today, and I'll remind you that I will be leaving shortly to accompany my husband. Thank you very much.

MR. JOHNSON: Good morning. I think what I'm going to do is echo the remarks of my fellow commissioners. It's great to see the CARTPO people here for the second time, I guess, in a pretty short period of time, and I want to congratulate you in advance on your organization. I think what you've been able to accomplish is a symbol or a model for other regions of the state to come together and put their individual agendas aside and come up with consensual priorities.

To the rest of you, I think we have a very interesting agenda, a very full agenda, and we're glad that you're here.

MR. NICHOLS: Welcome; I hope you feel welcome. We very much appreciate you being here; we look forward to your thoughts and ideas and comments, and we appreciate the time and your participation in our activities.

With that, also when you leave, be sure to drive carefully on your way home. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you, members.

Let me remind everyone if you wish to address the commission at today's meeting, I need for you to complete a speaker's card -- it's available to you in the lobby. If you're going to comment on an agenda item, please fill out a yellow card like the one that's in my right hand and identify the agenda item of which you wish to speak.

If it's not an agenda item, we'll take your comments during the open comment period, and I need for you to fill out the blue card if you intend to make a comment in the open comment period. Regardless of the color of the card or your comments, we do the best we can to limit our speakers to three minutes and we ask that you try to do that -- other than elected officials -- in order that everyone can be heard and everyone can be paid attention to.

One additional housekeeping note, if it appears to me that today's commission meeting will extend beyond four hours in length, I will take a recess before one o'clock, when appropriate in the noon hour, to allow all of us to get a bite of lunch and grab a cup of coffee and rest and collect our thoughts.

The first item on the agenda for today is the approval of the minutes of the August commission. Do I have a motion?

MR. HOUGHTON: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Do I have a second?

MS. ANDRADE: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor of the motion will signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: All opposed, no.

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Motion carries.

CAPITOL AREA REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION PLANNING ORGANIZATION - BASTROP AND LEE COUNTIES

(Mayor Ray Sanders, Rep. Robby Cook, Patty Guerra for Senator Steven Ogden, Alderman Bill Hamilton, Maurice Pitts, Mayor Eric Carlson, Don Loucks, Mayor Tom Scott)

MR. WILLIAMSON: We are entertaining one delegation this month, the Capitol Area Regional Transportation Planning Organization. We welcome each of you this morning, and I'll introduce at this time the mayor of the City of Lockhart, the Honorable Ray Sanders, to lead off and introduce the other speakers. Mayor, the floor is yours.

MAYOR SANDERS: Thank you very much, commissioners, and certainly Chairman Williamson and Director Behrens. This is one of the highlights of our year, it really is; we've looked forward to being here and we thank you for giving us this opportunity because I know that you have tough decisions to make and we thank you for what you do and what you do for the citizens of Texas.

I am Mayor Ray Sanders, mayor of the City of Lockhart; I am also the chairman of the Capitol Area Regional Transportation Planning Organization. We're here today to ask for your consideration for funds to complete some transportation projects that we feel are very, very important to Central Texas.

Last year we made our first presentation in April and we presented three top projects and you selected the top one and did fund that, and we're extremely grateful, and that was for a divided highway between Giddings and the Lee County line on 290.

And Commissioner Andrade, my wife went through that yesterday and she's going home today, so our prayers are with you.

Since there are two members of the commission that are new, I just want to briefly talk about CARTPO just a little bit. Back when the federal government passed the Texas Equity Act 21, TEA-21, they were very concerned about input from the rural areas as far as transportation planning, so a lot of your councils of government formed RPOs, or rural planning organizations. At CAPCO here in Central Texas, we felt that that wasn't sufficient, that really what we needed to have was more of a regional input that considered both the urban and rural areas as to what are our most important projects.

And so as a result, CARTPO represents ten counties with Llano on the west to Fayette County on the east, to Williamson County on the north and Caldwell County in the south, with approximately 1.4 million people. These are the counties of: Bastrop, Blanco, Burnet, Caldwell, Fayette, Hays, Lee, Llano, Travis and Williamson. CARTPO exists to serve as the catalyst for transportation planning and project implementation that anticipates and meets the regional infrastructure requirements.

In addition to the county judges and several city mayors and council members, the county commissioners that attend CARTPO meetings, we have a number of organizations that come to the meetings not only to hear and be advised but also to act as advisors to us. The significant ones that I can name right off are: the Austin San Antonio Corridor Council, the Capital Area Metropolitan Planning Organization, Austin Area Research Organization, the Texas Transportation Institute, the Capital Area Rural Transportation System, and a number of university representatives also come to our meetings. They're open to anybody and everybody that wants to come to learn more about transportation issues. In working with all of these people today, we've tried to build an extensive consensus over what we feel are the most necessary projects in the Central Texas region.

At this time I'd like to recognize some of the state legislators that have supported our proposals today: Senator Ken Armbrister, Senator Gonzalo Barrientos, Senator Steven Ogden, Representative Robby Cook, Representative Dan Gaddis, Representative Mike Krusee, and Representative Patrick Rose. They either are present or have staff here or have sent letters of support that you have with you.

I'm not sure if some of them have to leave. Would it be all right for them to address the commission?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes, sir, and Mayor, I've learned to wear my glasses all the time because I misread the clock, so what I'm going to ask you to do is are you about to yield the floor or do you have additional remarks?

MAYOR SANDERS: I do have additional remarks.

MR. WILLIAMSON: If you don't mind, go ahead and close your remarks, and then I need to step back and allow Commissioner Andrade to address a few matters that need to be addressed.

MAYOR SANDERS: Okay. You all have the notebooks before you and you will see that they contain a lot of the letters and endorsements and so forth for the particular projects.

I'd be remiss if I didn't at this time compliment TxDOT. Without TxDOT, we would not be here, we would not exist as an organization. And I want to say specifically for Bob Daigh and our district engineer and his staff, Joe Holland, Ed Collins, that come to every one of our meetings, they assist us on information. What was an adversarial role just a few years ago has now become a true partnership, and if it wasn't for them, we would not be able to make these presentations, and I can't say enough for them.

Just briefly, what you'll see this morning is first we'll have Alderman Hamilton from Rollingwood who will describe how the procedure went on formulating these presentations and selecting these projects; then we'll have Mayor Eric Carlson from Elgin and Commissioner Maurice Pitts from Lee County that will present the 290 project; and then Commissioner Don Loucks and Mayor Tom Scott from Bastrop that will present the 71 project. And now I will yield to Alderman Hamilton.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And please accept my apologies; I'll try to start wearing my glasses more frequently.

MAYOR SANDERS: And I'll be back at the end.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And likewise, Commissioner Andrade.

MS. ANDRADE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My concerns are on the agenda item number 2. I'd like to acknowledge that I have met with the CARTPO Delegation, and once again, I'd like to congratulate you on working together. I was very impressed when you met with me and everyone in the room seemed to work well together and you were able to set your priorities and bring them to us, so thank you very much, and I shared with you my concerns and my thoughts and my advice on continuing to work with Bob Daigh and seeing if we can come up with some other possible solutions. So thank you very much.

Discussion item number 5, Mr. Chairman, I've discussed with the Legislative Affairs Office and I'm comfortable that I think they understand my thoughts on this, so I'm fine with that.

Number 11, Cameron County on their Regional Mobility Authority application, I'd like to congratulate them and thank them for going through the process and being patient and working diligently with the staff, and of course, I completely support this.

So those are my only concerns on the agenda.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mike, are you aware of any staff issues that should be brought to our attention before Hope leaves, anything that she should be aware of that might come up later on in the day that would perhaps catch her off guard?

MR. BEHRENS: I don't think so, Mr. Chairman. Hopefully Commissioner Andrade went through the briefing items that we put before you and has discussed with staff any concerns she's had.

MS. ANDRADE: Mr. Chairman, on item number 7 which is a discussion item on the 2005 Statewide Mobility Program, since it is a discussion, I might ask my assistant to make sure that I get another briefing on this.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes, ma'am. We might all get another briefing on this one.

MS. ANDRADE: Thank you very much for your consideration.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Is there anything any member believes should be brought to Commissioner Andrade's attention before she leaves?

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Godspeed, Hope. We'll be thinking of your husband.

Thank you, Mayor, for allowing us to do that.

MAYOR SANDERS: I'm reminded -- I am remiss -- there is something that I forgot to do at the beginning, but I understand why we did that, and again, our prayers are with you and your husband.

I would like, if I could, ask all the elected officials of CARTPO to please stand. And now if all of the delegation that supports CARTPO would please stand. Thank you very much.

Thank you, and now I'll turn this over to Alderman Hamilton from Rollingwood who will present the selection process. Robby has got to leave? Okay. Would you like to hear from the state representative?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I can assure you, any time a member of the legislature wants to be heard, we're listening.

MAYOR SANDERS: I just thought that might be your call, sir.

(General Laughter.)

MR. COOK: Thank you very much, commissioners. Chairman Williamson, it's good to see you. I'm trying to get a haircut just like you; you've been my mentor for a long time since we served together, and I'm working on it; it's getting there.

I want to thank you for your services to the State of Texas, I truly do. You ladies and gentlemen are dealing with some very, very tough issues, transportation and mobility, and where it's going to lead us in the future, and I appreciate your service.

I'm not going to take very long. I'm here for item number 2 on the agenda which is certainly CARTPO. I want to echo your statements, Mr. Johnson, that this organization is truly a model for regional planning, cooperation, communication. And Mr. Daigh, they've all been very, very fun to work with, great to work with as far as the legislative perspective. And it's certainly no secret to anyone that the projects in Bastrop and Lee Counties, Highway 290 and 71, the problems and the issues that those folks are having there. They have set up a great organization, they've had numerous meetings. I've been to some of the meetings in the very beginning of the process on how they're trying to deal with their transportation problems, the safety issues, the congestion that they're dealing with, and certainly if we don't do something sooner than later, it's going to only continue to get worse.

They are a model, I take my hat off to the organization they have, the cooperative efforts. I hope that other areas of the state will look at what they're doing and will recognize their efforts and copy them in the future. So I'm here to show my very, very strong support for both of these projects and I hope that you will share in my view that these projects do need to go forward and to help those folks out, not only in that region but I also have a lot of legislative friends of mine that drive back and forth from that area of the state, Houston-Harris County and I could probably get a little petition together of all the legislators, especially when it's on Texas weekend. They ask me quite often when are you going to do something on 71 and 290. There's a lot of support out there other than me just standing up here and talking to you.

So thank you very much. Once again, appreciate your service and always my office is open to you guys any time.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Commission members for Representative Cook? Please, Mr. Nichols.

MR. NICHOLS: I just wanted to, while you're here, say how much I have appreciated working with you on transportation over the years.

MR. COOK: Yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: I particularly want to say it in front of some of the people from your district that you've always taken the time whenever we've needed help to help support transportation, you've always been supportive of the transportation in the state, statewide, in your area, and for that you're very much appreciated.

MR. COOK: Well, thank you very much, and I also share that view with you, and I want to thank Commissioner Johnson for taking the time to come down to the district here a few months back also. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Commission members? I echo Mr. Nichols' comments. Robby, even though some individual issues we disagree on, you're a strong supporter of transportation and we appreciate it.

MR. COOK: And that's just a part of communication.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes.

MR. COOK: Thanks, Ric. Good to see you guys.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Back to you, Mayor.

MAYOR SANDERS: I think we have a representative from Senator Ogden's office.

MS. GUERRA: Good morning. I'm Patty Guerra with Senator Ogden's office, and I have a letter of support from the senator that I would like to read.

"Dear Chairman Williamson:

"I have received numerous calls and letters of concern regarding the dangers of traveling on Highway 290 East between Giddings and Elgin. This roadway carries approximately 1,500 vehicles per day, of which 15 to 20 percent is truck traffic. Between 1999 and 2001, there were 202 accidents on this section of highway, resulting in 12 deaths. This is a dangerous roadway in desperate need of improvements.

"This is the last section of Highway 290 that is not widened between Austin and Houston. Forty percent of the necessary right of way is already owned by the Texas Department of Transportation; the project will require a minimum displacement of businesses and/or residents. This venture has the support of Lee County and Travis County officials.

"The Capitol Area Regional Transportation Planning Organization has designated this highway project as one of the top two priority projects for the ten-county region. I strongly support the widening and dividing of Highway 290 from Giddings to Elgin and request expedited funding for the construction of this critical safety project.

"Sincerely, Steven Ogden."

MR. WILLIAMSON: Commission members?

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: We hope you'll extend to the senator our howdy and our thanks for his support of transportation.

MS. GUERRA: I will. Thank you very much.

MR. HAMILTON: Thank you, Mayor Sanders, for that introduction, and thank you, commissioners. And Mr. Chairman, good to see you again; it's been a while. Thank you very much.

MR. WILLIAMSON: It's good to see you. It's been a while, and you're always welcome here and I think you realize that.

MR. HAMILTON: Yes, sir. Thank you. And we look forward to coming back, but we've got work to do before we do that today.

And Commissioner Andrade, we thank you for spending a few moments of your time with us today.

I am Bill Hamilton and I'm an alderman from the City of Rollingwood which is a small town here in Travis County just west of Zilker Park and MoPac on the south side of Town Lake.

I've been participating in CARTPO now for several years and I serve, as Mayor Sanders mentioned, chair of the Planning and Project Development Committee of CARTPO, and over the past couple of years we've spent a lot of time and energy trying to identify ways to address many of the critical roadway needs in this ten-county area. And while working in conjunction with the TxDOT district office, it's become crystal clear to all of us that TxDOT has a funding shortage, no question about it, and there are many important projects in our region that unless they're funded in the short term, there's an indefinite period in which they will ever be funded.

This is certainly a grim prospect for our rapidly growing area of ten counties, as you see. It's a growing region which is already inundated with traffic congestion and unsafe roadways. So rather than waiting for the traditional funding process to make projects move up the line, we decided to pursue a request of you from the Discretionary Strategic Funding. So in the spring of 2004, CARTPO members participated in a four-month long -- that was this last spring -- a four-month long process to identify and select the region's top priority projects.

A formal letter was sent to each county judge in the ten counties inviting them to work with their mayors, county commissioners, other local elected officials in those areas to develop and prioritize the county's top three most important projects that were not on TxDOT's construction and development schedule as of that time. We got 14 projects from the ten counties and from that area, and the Project Evaluation Committee from CARTPO began to consider those.

The Project Evaluation Committee was formed with up to three members again from each of the ten counties recommended by the county judge in each of those counties. Each of those projects was evaluated based on need criteria, and we consulted many times with Bob Daigh and his staff on the best way to evaluate projects from your perspective, from his perspective, and certainly from our perspective.

And up there you see the six criteria that each project was evaluated on: local support and public participation; economic development impacts; ease of implementation -- in other words, is the project pretty close to being ready to go; what regional impacts are there that are favorable from our standpoint; what safety considerations are there that can be addressed favorably; and certainly, each time we looked at a project, we wanted to know the best and most current data about its current traffic volumes and its projected traffic volumes.

I should say that of those six criteria, there were three that we gave extra consideration to -- in other words, we factor them up because of the criticality we believe and we think you believe are to a successful highway project, those being: local support, regional impacts, and safety considerations. And we think as you look at our projects today, you'll see that we addressed those six criteria with those particular three being given extra weight.

On June 25, 2004, the CARTPO committee unanimously approved US Highway 290 from Elgin to Giddings and State Highway 71 through Bastrop as our top two projects in 2004 to be presented to you today. And I should say that September 30, 2004 has been on our calendars for quite some time, so we're very excited about being here today.

Both of these projects have important implications for safety, economic development, and most importantly, regional mobility and connectivity in this region. Commissioner Pitts from Lee County, Mayor Carlson from Elgin, Commissioner Loucks from Bastrop, and Mayor Scott from Bastrop will all present more details in a moment about these projects, and as you hear those comments from these elected officials, I urge you to not only consider the local and regional benefits of these projects, but the advantages these projects gain to the overall statewide system, and I know you do that because I've seen you do that before.

Finally, before I turn the mike over to them, I want to make a couple of final comments. Another benefit, we believe, of this whole process has not been just the revelation of these projects but the identification and the proving of a good process where there's a spirit of cooperation and regionalism that's fostered by many elected officials across the ten-county area.

And finally, you might ask why would a Rollingwood alderman get involved in a project like this. We're a small city, 1,400 residents, about ten miles of residential city streets, one mile of state highway; that being Ranch to Market Road 2244, or Bee Cave Road. We're very happy, by the way, of the recent improvements on that. Well, our residents don't drive around the city streets of Rollingwood or Bee Cave Road all day long; they're out on these areas, so if I'm being responsive to my constituents, I'm out looking for opportunities to address issues that they address both within and outside of the traditional boundaries of my small city.

Well, that's my two final comments to you. At this point I'd like to recognize Commissioner Maurice Pitts from Lee County to begin the presentation on Highway 290. Thank you very much.

MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.

MR. PITTS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, commission members, Director Behrens. My name is Maurice Pitts and I am and have been a county commissioner for the past 12 years in Lee County which is on the eastern edge of the CARTPO region. I have lived in Lee County all my life and enjoyed its friendly people and somewhat slower pace of life. Unfortunately, every day we see an increase in traffic and more serious and deadly accidents on our roadways.

Today, along with Mayor Carlson, we are asking that you approve funding for the 22-mile section of US 290 from east of Elgin to just west of the Giddings city limits. As you may realize, this roadway was originally built as a two-lane undivided highway with shoulders until the early '70s when it was converted to a four-lane undivided roadway. This is the last stretch of US 290 between Austin and Houston that is still an undivided highway. We would like the commission to close the gap and finish the job by improving all of US 290 into a four-lane divided highway.

This highway serves as a major route between Austin and Houston as well as between the Austin-Bryan-College Station area. Improvements would ease necessary trucking between these cities and increase travel safety for commuters and students. This highway is on the State Trunk System as well as on the National Highway System. Since the deregulation of the trucking industry, truck traffic has more than doubled on this roadway.

This four-lane undivided highway was not designed to handle the amounts and types of through traffic that it now carries on a regular basis, not to mention the growing number of people living in the area are a constant in-and-out flow of traffic to businesses located along this roadway. The 2003 daily traffic count is as high as 20,000 vehicles per day, and are projected to exceed 32,000 in 2023. Truck traffic represents approximately 15 to 20 percent of the trips. We feel that it must be upgraded to at least minimum safety levels for all travelers.

Today we are asking that you please help us complete this project on this major intrastate corridor. As I stated earlier, it's the last section of undivided US 290 between Austin and Houston, and this project is currently listed as a planned project in the Unified Transportation Program.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I would now like to introduce Elgin Mayor Eric Carlson who will present additional information on the US 290 project since it stretches from east of Elgin in Bastrop County to west of Giddings in Lee County.

MAYOR CARLSON: Thank you, Maurice.

Good morning. I wish to thank the commissioners for allowing us to speak with you today. My name is Eric Carlson and I've been the mayor of Elgin since 1994. During the last ten years we've experienced a great deal of growth in Bastrop County. We feel a great deal of the pressure up in Elgin; we're at the junction of 290 and 95 and we're feeling the pressure of this growth.

As Commissioner Pitts mentioned, Highway 290 is a major link connecting the Austin area with the Greater Houston area and the Southeast Texas area. In addition to auto traffic, it handles a lot of truck traffic; a lot of the truck drivers coming south on I-35 opt to take 95 instead of going through Austin on I-35; they come to Elgin, the junction there, and thereafter go on 290 towards Houston.

290 also intersects Highway 21 in Paige, and as a result of that, we are the major traffic area for the flow of students between Texas A&M and the University of Texas, and of course, that's their primary route of traveling between those two institutions.

The Texas Legislature in 1995 designated 290 from Austin to Paige and Highway 21 from Paige to College Station as the Presidential Corridor, connecting the two presidential libraries in College Station and Austin. This has been a real economic asset in promoting tourism in the Central Texas area.

Unfortunately, this critical roadway which is currently a four-lane undivided highway has exceeded its design capacity and can no longer move traffic safely and efficiently. Head-on collisions and serious accidents happen much too often. During the heavy traffic load periods, drivers are afraid for making a left turn from the inside lane, fearing that they're going to be rear-ended and hit the oncoming traffic. The latest statistics -- and they're recorded also in the senator's letter -- for a three-year period indicates there have been more than 200 accidents with 12 fatal accidents on this highway. And I think many experts say that the most dangerous highway we can have is the undivided four-lane highway without shoulders. That's what we have on Highway 290.

In the CARTPO handbook that we distributed to you, you will find a citizen petition organized and submitted by Shirley Garvel, who is a concerned traveler on Highway 290. The petition contains over 740 signatures; the petition supports the widening of US 290 into a four-lane divided highway from east of Elgin to west of Giddings. And we have with us today Shirley. Shirley, stand up. She got all of those signatures and did all those petitions. Thank you for your hard work, Shirley.

TxDOT has drafted and presented the environmental assessment for this project; public hearings have been held for the Bastrop County section of this highway; 40 percent of the necessary right of way is owned by TxDOT; and the displacement of businesses and/or residences will be minimal. To the extent appropriate, local governments will participate in utility relocation and right of way acquisition.

We ask for your help with this very vital project. We thank you for your time, and at this time I'd like to introduce Bastrop County Commissioner Don Loucks who will talk about our other regional project, and that's Highway 71 through Bastrop. Don?

MR. LOUCKS: Thank you, Mayor Carlson.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, commissioners. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to be with you today. My name is Don Loucks; I've been a county commissioner in Bastrop for the past three years, nine months and 30 days.

Improvements to State Highway 71 through Bastrop would increase accessibility and general travel safety between Austin, Houston, San Antonio, Bryan-College Station, and Temple. The project would also enhance access to the Austin Bergstrom International Airport which is a critical component of the region's intermodal transportation system and growing industrial base.

The Bastrop Industrial Park and the majority of Bastrop businesses are located on State Highway 71. Through traffic contends with local access traffic all through the city. The proposed project would help unclog this corridor and promote economic mobility along the corridor. The project is on the National Highway System, the Texas Trunk System, and significantly, is a hurricane evacuation route.

The Capital Area Planning Council has projected the county's population to increase from the 2000 census count of almost 60,000 to about 120,000 in 2015. Right now we are expecting an additional 13,000 homes over the next ten years, mostly in the area immediately west of Bastrop which is in my precinct, Precinct 3. Today, 53 percent of the county's population commutes to Austin on a daily basis, and we expect this pattern to continue into the future.

This project is currently listed as a PLAN project in the UTP. The county has indicated that to the extent appropriate, it will participate in the utilities relocation and right of way acquisition. Most of the project will fit on existing right of way. TxDOT has already programmed other components, such as bridge rehabilitation, that have facilitated this project.

Again, we thank you for your consideration of this much needed project. I would now like to introduce Bastrop Mayor Tom Scott who will present additional information on the State Highway 71 project through Bastrop. Mayor Scott?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, please say howdy to a long, long, long time friend of the Chair. How far do we go back: '85-86?

MAYOR SCOTT: Quite a few years. How are your softball-playing daughters these days?

MR. WILLIAMSON: One is married; two of them are out of law school, one is fixing to be out of law school; life is great.

MAYOR SCOTT: Well, I have an eight-year-old grandson now.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, it's good to see you. You've given many years of your life to the state of Texas, and I'm appreciative of your efforts.

MAYOR SCOTT: Thank you.

Good morning. My name is Tom Scott; I'm a long-time resident of the City of Bastrop and I've been the mayor there for six years now. During this time I've watched our city and our county grow and grow significantly.

Bastrop County is the eighth-fastest-growing county in Texas and 30th in the United States. We have an extensive extraterritorial jurisdiction and right now we have over 32,000 new platted lots that are in one stage or another of our planning process. There's now a 500-room Hyatt Destination Resort under construction in our ETJ. Simon Development Corporation, the nation's largest mall-builder, has acreage under option right now and they're doing their due diligence on a one million square foot campus-style shopping center.

Traveling to Austin on a fairly regular basis, I can assure you that I've developed a personal perspective of the impact all this growth has had along State Highway 71. I'm sure as we have discussed with some of you before this meeting, that if you've traveled on 71 on any weekend or holiday or at any point in time, particularly when the University of Texas or Texas A&M University are playing a home game, you know exactly the kind of traffic that I'm talking about. There's serious congestion on this stretch of this highway, though, every day. 2003 traffic counts, daily traffic counts range from 33,000 to 60,000 vehicles per day, and are projected to exceed 68,000 in 20 years.

Despite all this growth, however, Bastrop is still largely a rural community. Within our corporate limits, we only have 6,500 residents, but we have 7,800 kids attending our public schools; every day 2,200 kids come into Bastrop to attend our 5A high school. So we are a small community and a large rural distributed population.

Highway 71 is very important to us. We're most appreciative for the portion of the project that's currently underway, and we desire to continue to improve State Highway 71 and are now interested in completing this almost five-mile stretch of state highway, most of it through our city. Safety and mobility are critical to sustaining our quality of life and our economic vitality.

Now I'm going to give the microphone back to Lockhart Mayor Ray Sanders. Thank you.

MAYOR SANDERS: As you can see, even though these two projects are both located in the east borderline of the ten-county region, they have widespread support. In your packet there are letters from three senators, four House representatives, 25 local governments, and 12 organizations, ranging from the highest levels of the legislature to a grassroots petition. Copies of the letters and the citizen petition are included in your agenda packet as well as the notebooks we distributed today.

The Central Texas region has come together in a single organization, CARTPO, to speak with a united voice on our regional priorities. Today we are asking you to close the gap on 290 with funding of $55 million to upgrade this 22-mile segment of US 290 from Elgin to Giddings to a four-lane divided highway.

It is the last section of undivided US 290 between Austin and Houston. We're also asking that you unclog the corridor by funding the $50 million State Highway 71 project that would upgrade the five-mile segment of State Highway 71 through the city of Bastrop to a four-lane divided freeway with frontage roads. State Highway 71 is a major route to both Austin-Houston travelers and Austin-College Station travelers.

The county judges, commissioners, mayors, state legislators, civic organizations, citizens along the routes, and members of CARTPO ask that these projects be given serious consideration in light of their importance for safety, economic impact, and regional connectivity.

At this time, we would certainly welcome any questions from the commission.

By the way, my dog Lucky has come back -- if you remember Lucky.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I remember Lucky.

MAYOR SANDERS: He's missing half of one ear but he's still around.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Good presentation, Mayor, from yourself and all your participants.

Commission members?

MR. JOHNSON: Let me preface what I'm going to say. It's extremely rare, I believe, that someone would make a comment after a presentation like this like the one that I'm about to make. I travel both of these corridors often, to and from Austin and to and from other parts of the state, and in my mind I don't think there are two what I would call rural segments that need to be done that impact more people than these two. They impact not only the local people, but as the presenters have mentioned, the people traveling to Austin from the east and southeast and people traveling to Bryan-College Station and other points east from the west and southwest, and it's a huge number of through travelers, but it also has great impact on the local communities.

My sense is -- one of the premises that we're hopefully on the line to adopting -- to finish what we start, and in both of these corridors we have made significant starts, currently under construction on 290 east of Giddings to the Fayette County line, we've commenced that project, and likewise in the city of Bastrop on Highway 71 we've commenced the project there, and I would hope that we would finish what we started.

You've also mentioned the impact of safety or the importance of safety. Ten or twelve years ago -- and I apologize for not remembering specifically -- our company lost an employee on 290 in Lee County in a horrific traffic accident, so I'm painfully familiar with the safety implications, especially on that one stretch.

As I mentioned to you yesterday, with the tools that House Bill 3588 have provided the commission and communities to come together and figure out ways to get things done -- and I think we have a prime example later in the agenda of the City of Kyle, I believe we'll approve a State Infrastructure Bank loan to Kyle to make some improvements, and it's a hybrid situation where I think they're going to come later and we'll do a pass-through tolling agreement to let them complete a very important project that's meaningful to the residents of Kyle -- and I think we have enough tools whereby what you've been able to accomplish at CARTPO in getting the consensus of ten counties to come together and identify these projects and the impact that these projects have on this entire state, that we now have the tools that we ought to figure out a hybrid way to get these things done.

I say this couched with the knowledge that it's exceedingly rare that delegations leave here with a commitment and we're not going to break that tradition today, but I just think common sense -- I don't think we're going to break that tradition today, Mr. Chairman -- I just think there's a way that we ought to figure out to get these done because of the impact it has on so many Texans in so many different ways.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Houghton.

MR. HOUGHTON: Well, Commissioner Johnson, you stole my thunder. I was talking to the delegation yesterday about all the new available tools and I asked who your financial adviser was, I do believe, and I think there's great opportunity here to get these projects done. I've been on those two roads many a time because I have two children who have graduated from A&M and three there, so I've been through those corridors and they do need our attention.

So with that, I will stand to help any way I can on identifying the tools.

MR. NICHOLS: Thank you for being here and everybody from your group and delegation that has been here. You have come a long way in three years, done an outstanding job.

As you had said, and I think at least a team of your group took the time -- I think it's important for all of your people to know -- to visit one-on-one with most of the commission members yesterday and go over in detail a lot of the proposal and the rationale and things like that, so we appreciate that.

Number two, we asked you to work with a regional approach and you've done that. We asked you to, as a region collectively, have the official bodies, the counties, city governments come together and try to prioritize projects in your region, and you've done that. We asked you to work with our TxDOT people in your geographic area, and I've got confirmation not only from you but from our people that you have done that. You have pretty much done everything that we have asked you to do, and have been very consistent about it.

And it was Shirley -- was your name -- who did all these petitions? Shirley, thank you for all your work; you obviously have a passion with this.

So it sounds like we've got some work to do to try to figure out a way somehow to make progress on these projects. Both of these projects currently on the books are only in what we call the PLAN mode; they can study them, they can do a number of things. And as I also understand on the 290 project, 40 percent of the right of way is probably already there?

MAYOR SANDERS: Owned by TxDOT, yes.

MR. NICHOLS: Right. The next step would normally be a DEVELOP step where we could in turn then, if we could work out the funding, to acquire right of way, do the engineering, and begin the process of moving forward on a project.

I'm not sure if I'm going to ask Amadeo or Mike, but I'll let them decide which one will answer, because I've got a couple of questions.

Commissioner Johnson was referring to some of the tools the legislature gave us. I know the proposition bonds, sometimes referred to as Ogden Bonds or Krusee-Ogden Bonds, they allow us to advance forward some of our construction funds, and in particular, there was 20 percent of that money -- which is almost $600 million -- that is flagged for safety. I think many of us recognize that the four-lane undivided, no-shoulders is hazardous. Of our different categories, it has the worst accident record than the other categories of roads.

I know in my conversations with Senator Ogden over the years related to that, that has been a very big concern of his, I've heard him bring it up over and over. Is there any way our administration, in trying to prepare safety categories of funding for that 20 percent, I know have categorized I think three different types -- four?

MR. BEHRENS: There are four types: one is widening narrow roadways, one is adding additional left-turn lanes, one is looking at centerline median barriers for existing divided highways, and the third is grade separations at intersections. I think both of these projects may have some elements that we could look at that could possibly rank and make that program, probably not the whole project in entirety but some elements of the project.

MR. NICHOLS: That's why I was asking the question, trying to find the funding. You came before us I think it was 18 months ago, and I think we did fund the projects and that's going, so safety is extremely important to us here, and I think we recognize that as a problem.

So I think I would just say that I think there may be some hope or chances here with some of these new tools that an opportunity may have presented itself that was not here two years ago.

Anyway, you have done everything we have asked and we very much appreciate it, and thank you for a great presentation.

MAYOR SANDERS: And we're committed to continuing to do that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mayor, forgive my ignorance. Is Bastrop part of CAMPO?

MAYOR SANDERS: Yes -- no, not CAMPO. Williamson, Travis and Hays are CAMPO; they considered Caldwell and Bastrop a while back but did not vote them into it.

MR. WILLIAMSON: You received endorsements of sorts from I think four of the five commissioners, and I think that's a clear signal the commission wishes to do something, staff. It's unfortunate it falls upon me, as it did Chairman Johnson previously and Chairman Laney before him, to be the fellow that says, however, but I want to suggest to you that the commission has a limited amount of gasoline motor fuel tax and vehicle registration allocation with which to plan for the entire state, and the near- urban areas of the state have, for several years now, participated in the transfer of tax revenues out of near-urban Texas to exurban and rural and border state Texas to improve the transportation system in that part of the state.

Near-urban Texas is probably at the point where its patience with doing that is understandably coming to an end, so the commission faces the uncomfortable task of figuring out how to refocus on Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Brownsville, El Paso, Corpus Christi, while at the same time addressing the needs of the entire state because, as we're fond of saying around here, this is one state, we are one people, we have to keep it glued together and make sure everybody is given attention to.

That's a long-winded way of saying it seems to me that if you wanted to get these projects funded really fast that Bastrop and Lee Counties would go home and form a two-county RMA, float a bond to pay for it, come to us with a pass-through toll proposal that would allow you to be reimbursed for the cost of building these roads and get the show on the road. I just can't imagine this commission not being able to find a way to put a portion of the Ogden-Pickett Safety Bonds with a well thought out RMA for these two projects, with a pass-through toll element associated with that, that would let you get these projects moving fast. You would suffer some cash flow loss for a few years but you wouldn't suffer ultimately; your counties would be reimbursed ultimately, you would be able to turn to your citizens and say: We're going to front the money, we're going to build these today, the state is going to reimburse us over time, and we can get started tomorrow.

I just can't imagine that this commission wouldn't view that approach very favorably. I mean, we're fixing to do that for our fellow Texans from Cameron County, we've done it for our fellow Texans in Grayson County. It's a good idea to at least look at it.

MAYOR SANDERS: And I don't disagree, I just think that when we talk about Austin's particular problems as an urban solution, this is part of Austin's problem.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mayor, I understand that yourself and all off the attendees wish to make that argument, and I appreciate it and in many ways I acknowledge it, but I'm going to tell you one of the reasons many of these projects all across the state, like yours, haven't been done is because we don't have the money to do them, and the hollow promise is just not this commission's way. To say great job and we'll find a way to do it and not be able to do it is not what these five people stand for. It's unfortunate that it falls upon me to say to you I kind of know where we're going in the next few years, it's a tough old row we're fixing to have to hoe the weeds out of, but I see a solution that will work for your communities if you'll just consider it.

MAYOR SANDERS: And as I started the whole thing, recognizing the fact that you have very tough decisions to make and we appreciate the decisions you do, and just giving us even the opportunity to be here.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Clearly the commission is very sympathetic to these specific particular two problems; we understand this is bad. One of the most difficult parts of this job, though, is to say to people from Bastrop County, as bad as it seems, this same situation is duplicated in a hundred places across the state, a thousand places across the state, no better and no worse, it's all across the state, and we struggle to address all of those. And it seems to me that there is a custom-made solution for these two problems if you wish to step through the window and take advantage of it. Otherwise, as the commissioners have said, we'll do what we can.

Thank you for coming and seeing us.

MAYOR SANDERS: And we appreciate it very much, anything that you can do. And our job on CARTPO is largely to identify the need, certainly the local governments will have to work out some of that solution.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm kind of curious, Mayor.

MAYOR SANDERS: About my dog?

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: No. You've been around a while and you're kind of familiar with transportation and stuff. Is it your view -- and I'm really curious about this -- is it your view that when we construct a toll road that we're double-taxing the citizens of our state?

MAYOR SANDERS: You're trying to set me up there, aren't you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: No, I'm really not setting you up, I'm really kind of curious about that because that's a criticism we hear frequently.

MAYOR SANDERS: And I talked to Mayor Wynn also about these issues, and I supported their decision. I just think that we've really got a tough situation, and I've got to think, particularly as far as CARTPO goes, the way that Bob Daigh has presented that to us, we're well aware of the situation with funding in the state and the lack thereof and what we're not getting from Washington. I think it's difficult, at best, at times to tell people, well, you've got a road and we're now all of a sudden going to toll it and this is your way to get to work. Since I have over 50 percent of our people commute into Austin on 183, it would be a tough decision to make.

But at the same time, I agree with the idea that if we got increased capacity, that there ought to be a way of tolling that. But I just think there's got to be a way of controlling it so we just don't have toll roads all over the place; there's got to be some system or plan to do this so that when I'm going to travel from here to Big Bend -- well, that's not a good example because there's only really one road to take -- I'm not going to just constantly be running into toll roads. I'm reminded of the fact that in Florida you get on the Florida Pike and you go along and you never get off but you keep hitting toll booths, probably every time you change counties, so you may go a few miles and you pay another toll and a few more miles and you pay another toll.

I think in the long run, if people really understood what it's going to cost them in tolls, they might be a lot more receptive to a gas tax or even a road tax of some type because I figure that just in commuting from Lockhart to Austin at 13 cents a mile, that would be about $3.90 a day; when you do the math, that's about $1,800 a year just to commute back and forth to work. I don't think people realize or quite have looked at that particular thing. I'd much rather pay $5- or $600, if I know I'm going to have to pay that much, in some kind of a road use tax.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Your answer actually kind of laid the groundwork for me to ask my next question because when I was talking about the pass-through toll, several of your partners in the back were shaking their heads like we can't do that, we won't do it. Would it surprise you to know that if we passed a minute order today instructing the staff to expand this stretch of 290 -- I don't know about 71, I know about 290 in a little more detail -- and instructed our staff to add that capacity, in effect build a new two-lane road, I guess is what it would amount to, and to allocate to provide for the maintenance of those two lanes for a 40-year life, that the gasoline tax you pay now and the allocated vehicle registration fee you pay every year now on a vehicle mile basis, would it surprise you to know that those taxes would never pay for that road?

MAYOR SANDERS: No, it wouldn't surprise me. I think we'd have to look at a significant increase.

MAYOR SANDERS: And that in fact it would never ever pay for the road; it wouldn't pay for half of the road. Would that surprise you?

MAYOR SANDERS: That kind of surprises me, that part.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We have our staff putting together some data now. One of the nice things about the Mobility Fund planning process we took the state through the last six months is it's subjected us to an awful lot of soul-searching, it's forced us to look at facts from different perspectives because many people allege -- one fellow of note in South Austin -- allege that using tax money to build roads and collecting tolls is double taxation, and we've discovered a lot of people in Texas believe that. We suspected that wasn't the case because we can see our cash flow. These are engineers and accountants, they kind of know money-in and money-out, what are roads costing, how long are they lasting, but we've been inspired to nail it down to make sure that we know what we're talking about.

And what we're discovering is some of the most popular and needed roads in the state -- MoPac South, for example; 290 in your area is another example -- based on the current taxation scheme we use in Texas, will never pay for itself, won't pay for half of the cost of the road and the maintenance of the road.

And so what we've chosen to do is be real honest with the taxpayers that come see us and say we want to do everything we can but you know, if you've got a buck and you've got two dollars worth of roads, a dollar worth of road isn't going to get built someplace if we don't do something else. It's better to say than to smile, we think, and say we'll do what we can, that's the easy way out; we're not the easy way out bunch.

MAYOR SANDERS: Mr. Chair, you've got a tough job and I'm sure they aren't compensating you enough.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We do it for love.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you. You made a great presentation. Was there anybody else from your organization that wanted to follow up or have any kind of dialogue about pass-through tolls, a great mechanism?

MAYOR SANDERS: I don't think so, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, anything else?

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: We want to thank you. Traditionally, we take a break after a delegation presentation and we resume. We're going to be on a pretty close time schedule today, so I'm telling you right now we're taking six minutes and six minutes only to allow our audience --

Thank you.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)

P R O C E E D I N G S (Resumed)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, so you're aware, we don't change our agenda lightly, but I've been informed that our friends from Cameron County are in need of catching an airplane at a certain time today. I wish for them to hear the remarks of Coby Chase on the legislative program; I will not allow them to miss their plane; if the remarks and the discussion goes too long, we will stop and take up the Cameron County matter out of order.

Is it my understanding, Cameron County, we need to walk out of here no later than eleven o'clock? Is that correct? That being the case, Mike, why don't we skip item 3 and 4 and go to item 5, and then we'll return to item 3 after we take up Cameron County.

MR. BEHRENS: Okay, Mr. Chairman. We'll go to item 5; we have a discussion item where Coby Chase, our Legislative Affairs director, will discuss our proposed legislative agenda and some of those statutory changes that would affect the department. Coby?

MR. CHASE: Good morning. My name is Coby Chase, and for the record, I'm the department's director of Legislative Affairs.

At last month's commission meeting I laid out some legislative issues for your consideration. Those came from you, from within the agency, and from our partners in the legislature. At your request, I am here today to continue the dialogue regarding the development of the commission's legislative agenda for the upcoming session of the Texas Legislature.

Since last month's commission meeting, my staff has been diligently researching issues that were discussed here and that Chairman Williamson has asked us to research. We're in the throes of that research effort now and I have very little to add at this time. I do expect to have some more substantive recommendations on whether to go forward or not on some of those issues by next month's meeting.

Of the issues discussed last month, we are making significant progress on: advanced acquisition of rights of way; land-based transportation planning; granting RMAs the authority to enter into the transit business; and all previously discussed House Bill 3588 modifications -- that is, eliminate the toll equity cap, eliminate the rail expenditure cap, broaden CDA authority, and things of that nature.

Other issues we are researching are: the disposition of the proceeds from the sale of department property; providing definition to the fact that we can use Fund 6 to construct our buildings; establishing the concurrent jurisdiction of courts for eminent domain cases; awarding small maintenance contracts to the second lowest bidder; creation of a state-funded State Infrastructure Bank program for eligible highway projects; TxDOT taking a more direct role in the Border Colonia Program; providing some type of assistance to disadvantaged counties for toll projects; and identifying funding sources for the Texas Mobility Fund.

I would like to state that we have investigated the public transportation enclave city issue I mentioned last month, and we now find no overriding reason to pursue such legislation and I've recommended to Mr. Behrens that our pursuit of this issue cease at this time. The issue more greatly affects those few communities than it does TxDOT and it seems best, from our standpoint, for those communities to decide where to go with it.

Last month I mentioned to you that Cathy Williams was leading an internal effort to identify personnel-related issues which may be of interest to you during the upcoming session. Cathy and the Human Resources Division have completed their work. These proposed issues include: paying relocation expenses for new hires; allow for salary increases for employees who move laterally within an agency; the accrual of comp time for work done at home; and an increase in administrative leave for outstanding performance.

These are not all necessarily unique to TxDOT. Cathy is working with other state agencies and the SACC, the State Agency Coordinating Council, and they're deciding how to move forward on that as well, so we are part of a larger team. Some of those are very important to us in particular, though.

In addition, at last month's commission meeting, Commissioner Nichols asked that we identify a funding source for the agency's rail ventures, whether that be the acquisition, construction or relocation of rail facilities. Also, Chairman Williamson has asked that a source of revenue be found to capitalize the existing Aviation revolving loan fund, possibly $4 million for the upcoming biennium, and to establish a state-funded public transportation SIB program, or State Infrastructure Bank program, possibly to the tune of a one-time amount of $40 million. All of these efforts are underway.

I would also like to comment again on what I brought up last month regarding the ongoing discussions surrounding the conversion of tax roads to toll roads. Clearly this issue has continued to evolve with the chair of House Transportation recently announcing publicly that he intends on revisiting this issue next session. As I stated last month, if we here in this room do not develop a precise acceptable definition for what is eligible for conversion to a toll road, then others will do it for us and we may or may not be comfortable with the outcome.

We have a clear interest in ensuring that this agency's ability to convert tax roads to toll roads is kept intact, but we do need to correct the misperception that we can do it by some sort of unilateral fiat. We must be willing to accept the fact that we should work with others to ensure that these conversions are palatable to the public.

I'd like to bring to your attention, for informational purposes only, another issue that has come to us from the Speaker's Office and that pertains to providing toll tags for use of our travelers. The idea is to make toll roads friendlier for tourists and business travelers. Right now they're pretty much limited to throwing coins into a bucket which doesn't make any toll road look all that attractive.

Representative Peggy Hamric, if I remember correctly, raised this at the last House Transportation hearing and the Speaker's Office became interested at the same time. Doing something to capture the tourist and business traveler market through rental car agencies, for instance, might be worth looking into.

I learned recently that in Chile they've developed a day pass of sorts for people who infrequently use toll roads, and if I understand correctly, in looking at agencies across the United States, nobody does it, not even Florida. In Orlando, the mecca of tourism, they're trying to figure out how to get the tourist market to use toll tags while they're in town. They think it would not only raise revenue but it would be a benefit for travelers in the region.

At any rate, we may be asked by the Speaker's Office to look at this and whether or not legislation is required.

That concludes my prepared remarks.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, by way of reminding ourselves and by way of informing the audience, the legislature in 2003, for the first time in the state's history, authorized the Department of Transportation Commission to develop and present a legislative program. It is in our best interest to broadly announce and discuss and inform our transportation partners from Dallas to Brownsville, from El Paso to Tyler, and the free press what our intentions are.

The purpose of Mr. Chase being here with us each month until December is to remind us that we are taking public positions on policy that will be presented to the legislature, and most important, so that we can say honestly no one was caught off guard or no one didn't have the opportunity to be prepared for what we think is good transportation policy.

It's appropriate at this time to ask Mr. Chase any questions you might want to ask him about matters he's working on or to offer him guidance as to where to go and how to get there on the matters he's discussed. The floor is open to the members. Mr. Houghton?

MR. HOUGHTON: The State Infrastructure Bank, currently the State Infrastructure Bank is funded with gas tax money. Correct?

MR. CHASE: If I remember correctly, it's capitalized with federal funds.

MR. HOUGHTON: Gas tax. Do we have the opportunity to leverage the State Infrastructure Bank currently?

MR. CHASE: In what sense?

MR. HOUGHTON: Sell bonds.

MR. CHASE: I believe so, yes. James Bass will be up here later.

MR. HOUGHTON: So we're looking for the opportunity that the state fund that Infrastructure Bank.

MR. CHASE: Yes, there are two discussions. One is a state-funded Infrastructure Bank using state funds because you have more flexibility in how you spend it. Whenever you use federal money, all sorts of strings are attached to it; state money is more flexible in what you can use it for and you can move it through the system faster.

The other discussion is creating a State Infrastructure Bank type program for other modes of transportation.

MR. HOUGHTON: Okay.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Johnson?

MR. JOHNSON: Coby, one of the issues that you brought before us at the last meeting had to do with the relocation of rail, and I noticed in the presentation this morning that was, at least in my mind, somewhat conspicuously absent. I hope we have not let that drift to the side. I spoke on it.

MR. CHASE: It has not been derailed.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: I think the benefits are enormous, not only to congestion and mobility, but to the environment. And I believe Commissioner Houghton and I know you have seen the benefits of the Alameda Corridor from the Port of Los Angeles through all those communities, and what it has provided in terms of benefit to congestion mobility and also the environment, and is structured financially where it, in essence, pays for itself. Not that that template would work in Texas in any of our communities -- it may or may not, but I still think the benefits are enormous and I hope we don't let that get derailed, per se.

MR. CHASE: Oh, no, sir. I might have spoke a little bit in code just for the sake of speed when talking about the removing the cap or raising the cap on the amount of money we can spend on such activities. That's part of that.

MR. JOHNSON: I did notice in our LAR, Legislative Appropriations Request, that we are thinking in those terms, and that's a very, very worthwhile way to approach things.

MR. CHASE: Absolutely. And that is at the very top of our thinking.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Nichols?

MR. NICHOLS: A couple of areas. One is there are different coalition groups in the state, various transportation supportive groups who are interested in and have expressed a strong interest in taking actually position statements on coming to the legislature and asking for I guess you would call it an optional regional transportation tax or fee. So I think that will be an issue for sure; I'm sure you're aware of that.

They have taken in that a number of possibilities of funding sources. I would like to request that your department spend some time investigating that, looking at the possible sources of revenue, finding out and trying to identify which ones might. Any funds that people get for transportation is obviously helpful, but I want to try to ensure, to the best that we can, that we don't run into something that long-term is detrimental to what might be considered back stay or traditional transportation fees. So we could possibly work with those so we could maybe come up with a recommendation or white paper or something in that area.

MR. CHASE: Absolutely.

MR. NICHOLS: The second thing is I know that contracting practices is an important issue with a number of the legislators, and we may want to work with administration and staff and you may have or may add some ideas of doing an internal study to try to come up with any contracting practices, recommendations that we might go to the legislature with that would be beneficial to the state, save money, improve the process or any efficiencies. I think we certainly should bring that to them.

MR. CHASE: Absolutely, we shall.

MR. WILLIAMSON: There are three things that continue to be of concern to me. I think all the commission is aware that rail relocation will probably be the object of attention of the governor in the next legislative session. We should be prepared to continue to present alternatives to the governor as he requested. I think the commission is united in agreeing with the governor that after what we did two years ago, the next significant step in improving urban transportation systems, so I don't want to lose our focus on that at all.

On the matter of conversion, it was never our intention to convert an existing traveled tax road to a toll road without the approval of local authorities. It was inadvertent that that step in the process was left out. I think the commission is united in instructing you to inform the legislature of not only our willingness to address that problem, it's in all of our best interests that the public feel comfortable that that decision, if it were made, is a decision based on local leadership and not state leadership.

I am extremely interested in having the right answers for the legislature on the matters of a revolving account for aviation and a revolving account for public transit, aviation because the legislature is always interested in what we can do to improve regional aviation in their particular areas, public transit because the governor has made it abundantly clear that public transportation will be a focus of his agenda for the next two years and beyond. We need to be prepared with some solutions in response to his instruction.

That's all I've got to say. Any other? And we would look forward to hearing from you on these matters and other matters at the October meeting.

MR. CHASE: I'll be there.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you very much.

We're doing good, so now we're going to, Mike, if you don't mind, hop back to the discussion on Parmer Lane.

MR. BEHRENS: Mr. Chairman, that's agenda item number 3. I will ask Bob Daigh to come up. Bob is our district engineer here in the Austin District and he will discuss an intersection problem that we're looking at in Austin at Loop 1 and Parmer Lane. Bob?

MR. DAIGH: For the record, my name is Robert Daigh, the Austin District engineer.

We have been asked by the community to look at the situation at Parmer Lane and Loop 1 North in Austin. There are concerns that have been raised by several neighborhoods and elected officials regarding the traffic congestion that exists now at this intersection and the impact of the Central Texas Turnpike project on this intersection.

We are evaluating a number of possible improvements at this location. They include adding lanes to the frontage roads themselves, the possible addition of turnaround structures, both northbound and southbound at the Parmer Lane/Loop 1 location, and we are also considering the possibility of adding flyovers. We are looking at all possible alternatives, we continue to study these, and we hope that within the next few months we will be able to reach a conclusion.

We invite you all to come out and visit the site to get a better understanding of the situation if you have time and desire to do so. We'll also be happy to provide detailed briefings for those of you that might want to learn more about it.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Bob, correct me if I'm wrong -- and I mean that sincerely -- this is a congestion issue; this is not a toll issue. Is that correct?

MR. DAIGH: It is viewed by the department as a congestion issue; there are others that view it as a toll issue.

MR. WILLIAMSON: But from our perspective, we have been aware for quite some time that being an imperfect organization, as the world is imperfect, this was a design flaw that we didn't catch early on, we caught sometime back, long before it became the source of attention by anyone, but we caught it as a congestion problem, not as a toll problem.

MR. DAIGH: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And this area is represented by whom in the legislature?

MR. DAIGH: It is represented by Representative Stick.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And the senator?

MR. DAIGH: It is Senator Barrientos, I believe.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, any questions or dialogue with Mr. Daigh?

MR. NICHOLS: The last thing we want to do is create a congestion problem as we're trying to solve one with an expansion of a freeway, even if it's a tollway. Your team, we had a meeting yesterday and I know you have been studying many different options of ways to improve the intersections that people are concerned about.

MR. DAIGH: Yes.

MR. NICHOLS: Do you feel real comfortable, as you have evaluated these different options, that we will be able to come up with I guess you'd call it an option that won't cause an additional time delay and actually might improve it some?

MR. DAIGH: Yes, sir, I am very confident that the department can come up with a solution that will make the travel times less for the residents than they are today.

MR. NICHOLS: And that you feel like you can have that done possibly by the same time the toll road would be open?

MR. DAIGH: Yes, sir. I believe there will be competition as to what could finish first, but approximately in the same time.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Stand by just a second, Bob; there's a few more things I want to ask you about.

Representative Stick, I see you're in the audience. I've got a note here you have a comment. Is that correct?

MR. STICK: Yes, sir.

Mr. Chairman and members of the commission, I appreciate you giving me just a couple of seconds to talk with you. First is the thank yous, both to you for all of your flexibility and your understanding. I know I've bugged you for the last 18 months on this. Mr. Chairman, I'm sure you rue the day that you gave me your cell phone number, and I promise when this is all over I'll get rid of it.

Bob Daigh has just been tremendous. He's fielded a lot of calls from me, from my office on this, and I appreciate you keeping this at the forefront of your agenda.

This is an ongoing concern, as you know; from almost the day I took office, I've been working with you to try to find some resolution on it. It is affecting home purchases in this area, it is affecting the values of the homes that are there, it's affecting whether or not people are willing to move into the area, and with the development of Robinson Ranch, it's going to have a serious impact on economic development one way or the other. I say one way or the other because if we are able to meet the needs at this intersection, it could also have an explosive effect on economic development and really improve the economic development efforts that we are undertaking in that area right now.

This is not a part of the CAMPO plan, although I'm pleased to tell you that the atmosphere in CAMPO is improving considerably; we're talking all of us, regardless of which side of the issue we're on, and we are making significant progress. In fact, this last week we agreed at the next jousting tournament not to use real weapons. So I think we're seeing significant improvements there.

(General laughter.)

MR. STICK: Mr. Chairman and members, my comment today basically is going to be I know that we are making progress on this and I appreciate that. Anything that you can do to move this quickly would be of great benefit. Even the ability to announce to people in the area that there is a solution and describe to them the possibility of what that solution is will have a significant impact on the issues that I've already described to you here just a few moments ago.

I'm happy to answer any questions that you have, if there are any. Otherwise, I just appreciate what you're doing and the speed with which you are doing it.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members? Mr. Nichols?

MR. NICHOLS: I was just going to reiterate, we very much appreciate you being here and appreciate the situation and concern that you've had because of your constituents and their concerns. You have expressed that very clearly to us and I can assure you that we have given it our full attention to try to come up, through the staff and administration and the district, with whatever reasonable we need to do to make sure that what they're concerned about is resolved as quickly as possible in a manner that's the safest and stuff also.

I think, and I know I had a meeting with Bob and I'm sure you've had many meetings with him and some of the others and I think that we as a commission have given him direction. That's a staff function to work that stuff out, but have given our full support for them to try to resolve it and get it worked out, and I feel very comfortable that they will.

MR. STICK: Thank you, Commissioner. I appreciate that comment.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We appreciate you being here.

MR. STICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Bob, you know, one of the things we've struggled mightily with is the balance between the commission interfering with operational matters and staying on its side of the fence -- which is policy -- and I wouldn't want you to think anything I or Mr. Nichols said was otherwise, but I've just got to tell you making Texans feel comfortable about the path that has been chosen to address congestion problems in this state -- that ubiquitous four-letter word -- is difficult enough; it's made more difficult when these situations arise and we don't resolve them quickly, whether it's the Austin District or the Houston District or the Fort Worth District, Dallas District, doesn't matter. Texans have to know that the commission pays attention, thinks about what's fair and what's right, and then acts and moves on.

So this isn't part of the CAMPO process, we don't ever want to interfere with local planning, this is a problem we've known about for a while. If the commission has been in any way wishy-washy about its wishes to you, we'd like to clarify that today. We want this problem off the table. And if Tuesday is not too quick, I'll take you out and you and I will go out and take a look at it Tuesday and we'll make some decisions, if that's okay with you.

MR. DAIGH: Okay.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I'll give you a call and we'll get about it.

MR. DAIGH: Okay.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Anything else, members?

MR. HOUGHTON: Is there a cost to the fix?

MR. DAIGH: Well, there is no single fix that has been determined, we're still analyzing a variety of options -- enough said.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I will represent to you, Mr. Houghton, by Tuesday we're going to know what it is because we're going to get this solved.

Thank you, Bob.

MR. DAIGH: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Let's take up Cameron County.

MR. BEHRENS: Let's go to agenda item number 11, and this will be the recommendation that we authorize a regional mobility authority for Cameron County. And I think, speaker, if you would yield first to our staff to introduce this item, and I'll bring up Phil Russell and he will present it to the commission.

MR. RUSSELL: Good morning, commissioners. I am Philip Russell, director of the Turnpike Division.

In June of this year, Cameron County filed a petition for the authorization to form an RMA. The petition identified the West Loop as the initial project for development by the RMA. The project would be a 7-and-a-quarter mile long facility, four-lane facility, located in the city of Brownsville, on the current right of way on the UP Railroad. The project would extend from the intersection of 77 and US 83 south to Palm Boulevard.

On August 31, we conducted a public hearing, pursuant to the RMA rules. Notice of the hearing was published in the Texas Register and in newspapers of general circulation in Cameron County. During the public hearing, as well as after the hearing, we received several statements, both written and oral, relating to the creation of the RMA. In general, there was broad support for the formation of the RMA; there was some general discussion about representation within the RMA, what the initial project might be, whether it's the West Loop or the second causeway bridge; there was some discussion about toll roads in general in the area. We did receive some resolutions of support from the Cameron County Commissioners Court, the Brownsville and the Harlingen-San Benito MPO.

If you choose to approve this minute order, you would authorize the creation of the Cameron County RMA, the area would be the entire geographic area of Cameron County, the initial project would be the West Loop project; and the initial board would be composed of seven members, six of which would be appointed by the Cameron County Commissioners Court, and of course, the chair would be appointed by the governor. And I will stand by for any questions you might have.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, the floor is open for questions with Mr. Russell.

MR. NICHOLS: Is the county going to make its presentation?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I believe the county is going to make its presentation.

MR. NICHOLS: Then I'll hold my comments or questions till after that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Then we are pleased to recognize Commissioner David Garza, a good friend of this department, a great Texan, and a pretty fair county commissioner, I'm told.

MR. GARZA: Thank you very much, Chairman Williamson and commissioners. It's a pleasure to be here this morning. Mr. Behrens, good to see you.

We are very pleased in Cameron County to have submitted to you our application for the creation of our RMA authority. Cameron County has in the past undertaken many large infrastructure projects; toll projects are not new to Cameron County. We now have three international bridges of which we are part owners and we have one street-highway route in Brownsville -- which I believe item 6(a)(4) will probably detail some of that with you -- which is a toll.

Our last major toll project was Veterans Bridge in Brownsville which was a $100 million project and it included a multitude of partners for the county to be able to accomplish that, including TxDOT, and we thank you for your help then and your continuing help now.

Another major infrastructure project that Cameron County is involved with is the relocation of railroads in our urban areas, and I was really happy to hear the commentary. Commissioner Houghton was with us last week down there and he mentioned to us some of your discussion, and that is really good to hear because we are positioned already to move forward with our projects in that. We have 180 at-grade crossings in Cameron County, we have 500,000 vehicular crossings daily, and with our railroad relocation plan which will allow us to create our first regional mobility authority project, we will reduce that to 125,000 vehicular crossings a day and 80 railroad crossings instead of 180.

So as we speak, we're waiting on constant call with the State Department because we have a presidential permit which we hope to hear from today by 4:00, and when we do we'll let you know; that will allow us to move with that relocation project forward.

Of course, today we're here because we would like you to approve our regional mobility authority. We do not believe that toll roads are double taxation; we believe that toll roads is an opportunity for our constituency to have an alternative means of mobility, and we want to make sure that we afford that opportunity to our residents in our area. We want to make sure that mobility does not impede our economic development opportunities that we might have in the future, either at the seaport, at the land port, or moving product from the land port to other parts of the state of Texas.

So we would like to say that the West Loop project is the identified project but there are many other projects that we would like to have considered for the RMA. We look at the second causeway that is going to be an ideal project for the RMA group; we look at 281 that links Brownsville to Hidalgo that would be an excellent candidate for that; and another one is 511. So there's plenty of projects that we would like to have looked at for that potential.

The West Loop project, 7.2 miles of right of way, available for us as soon as we can get this RMA rolling and available for us when we get your help in doing that rail relocation. We ask for you to help us with this. We think that with the approval of this RMA for Cameron County, we'll enter a new era of partnership with your department in which we can do great things of starting your Trans-Texas Corridor plan from the border to county line.

So I thank you in advance. I do wish to invite Commissioner Johnson and Commissioner Nichols to come view our area and see the projects firsthand. I thank Chairman Williamson for having been down there, and Commissioner Houghton and Commissioner Andrade for having visited. Thank you, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, questions or comments for Mr. Garza? Mr. Johnson?

MR. JOHNSON: Commissioner Garza, thank you so much for that generous invitation, and I can assure you I will take it up.

I want to salute you and your fellow commissioners.

MR. GARZA: Well, I would like to introduce, if I may, Commissioner John Wood.

MR. JOHNSON: I think this is a very important step and so meaningful for a border county to take this step. I think you recognize the challenges that we face in this state of dealing with congestion, and it is also heartening to hear the numbers that you spoke of in terms of the railway location and the impact that it's going to have on crossings in your part of the world, and you multiply that significantly if you go to our large metropolitan areas.

And so I think you're doing a lot of things right and I look forward to coming down there, and I certainly salute this step because I think it will solidify the partnership that the residents of Cameron County have with this department.

MR. GARZA: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Nichols?

MR. NICHOLS: I want to compliment you and the county and the community for having such a forward-thinking attitude. I think the steps that you are taking with this are going to have impacts that are going to be just wonderful for your community as time moves on. Not only are you going to solve a problem today, but you're going to generate some opportunities in the future that you would not have had otherwise, whether those be by road or transit or whatever, with the revenues to come.

I can't wait till we approve this, so I'll hold back until he finishes making his comments.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Houghton.

MR. HOUGHTON: You're going to hold back? That would be a first?

(General laughter.)

MR. HOUGHTON: I just love it, I really do. I expressed that and one of the things in my notes is a common theme that we're seeing with CARTPO before you came and your group is communities, regions coming together to plan and not coming, as I call it, to Austin to genuflect and say please, please, please. So I think it's an outstanding day, I really do, and especially for the border. There have been people that try to put a blanket on the border, David, as you and I talked, and call it one; that is so far from the truth. Your issues in Cameron, Hidalgo and those areas, those counties are completely different. You have your own issues, you have your own goals and objectives, and I applaud you.

And as I mentioned, you have a tremendous district engineer down there. Mario is working with those groups in planning and achieving the goals, finding ways to achieve your goals. So I applaud you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, I think you've heard some good things, David, and I think it's probably going to be no surprise how we're going to vote.

Let me just add that when the governor started sending his appointees to this commission, he had a couple of instructions. One of his instructions was: I don't want the communities of Texas having to come to Austin, Texas and beg for the tools they need to solve their problems, I want us to develop tools that are in their control, I want to empower regions to solve their problems and to generate cash flow for themselves for the future.

We have taken the necessary steps at the legislative level, almost unanimously; the governor has given us the necessary instructions, he has appointed men and women to carry that out; you are the last step in this journey. I am so pleased; you're going to be so pleased you did this. In ten years, if you're still on the court or doing something else or if you're just a citizen again, you are positioning your part of the state to never have to beg Austin, Texas for anything again, and that's what the governor wanted to establish that kind of empowerment.

So we're pleased, I can't tell you how pleased we are. We hope every community in the state takes advantage of this at some point.

MR. GARZA: Well, we know how important toll projects are because our revenues from our bridge system is the equivalent to 11 cents per hundred on our tax rate, so we understand that concept well.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

MR. GARZA: Thank you very much.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Anything else you need from us? Who gets the pleasure of moving?

MR. NICHOLS: I'll move.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Nichols has moved. Who takes the pleasure of seconding?

MR. HOUGHTON: I will second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Houghton seconds. All those in favor will signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: All opposed, no.

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Cameron County, very much. And we will take a five-minute break to allow Cameron County to unimpededly get to the airport.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: We're back from recess, and Mr. Behrens, I turn it over to you, sir.

MR. BEHRENS: We'll return back to agenda item number 4 which is Aviation. We have two minute orders before you to be presented by Dave Fulton, our Aviation director, the first being funding for our airport aviation projects, and the second being to appoint two members to the Aviation Advisory Committee. Dave?

MR. FULTON: Thank you, Mike. Commissioners, for the record, my name is Dave Fulton; I'm the director of the TxDOT Aviation Division.

The first minute order contains a request for grant-funding approval for six airport improvement projects. The total estimated cost on all of these requests, as shown on Exhibit A, is approximately $9.6 million: approximately $7 million in federal, $1.3 million in state funding, and $1.3 in local funding.

A public hearing was held on August 23 and no comments were received. We would recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, are there questions of Mr. Fulton?

MR. JOHNSON: Does any of this money go to Nichols International in Cherokee County?

MR. FULTON: No, sir. I believe that we've already taken care of that.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Other questions, members? Mr. Houghton, do I have a motion?

MR. HOUGHTON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: All opposed, no.

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Motion carries.

MR. FULTON: Thank you. The next item is a minute order to appoint one new member and reappoint one current member to the Texas Aviation Advisory Committee. The proposed new member is Mr. Pete Huff from McKinney, Texas; the member proposed for reappointment is Mr. Bill Knowles from Palestine, Texas. Both individuals meet the statutory requirements for service on the Texas Aviation Advisory Committee. We would recommend approval of this minute order and will point out that Mr. Knowles and Mr. Huff are present and wish to briefly address the commission.

MR. WILLIAMSON: What's the proper procedure, Mr. Monroe: let them address now?

MR. MONROE: (From audience.) Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Huff, we'll take you first, please.

MR. HUFF: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, fellow commissioners. I'm Pete Huff; I'm from McKinney, Texas, the county seat of Collin County. Recently, McKinney was designated the fastest growing city in the United States of America over 50,000 which not all Texans know but I'm trying to pass that word on. We've gone from 20,000 maybe four years ago to 96- today, so we're going to have to compete in the over 100,000 probably next time.

The airport is a major part of North Texas. I'm passionate about aviation but more passionate about the economic development of aviation, especially for the state of Texas. I've been here since 1940, really look forward to this appointment, and will do my very best to contribute to the aviation structure in the state of Texas. I'll be glad to answer any questions.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members?

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you for coming this distance and thank you for your service.

MR. HUFF: Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I've got a question for you.

MR. HUFF: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Which side of the McKinney Airport issue are you on?

MR. HUFF: Oh, that's easy.

(General laughter.)

MR. HUFF: Let me just address that a bit. I travel the country quite a bit, and in fact, I was in Santa Fe just very recently. They proceeded to tell us a similar story: there are a few dissident people that bought land cheap around the airport and don't like their airport now but it's a major economic development tool to that community. We have our dissidents as well and we very respectfully deal with them and so forth, but our motto basically is we're going by all the rules, environmental, federal, state, local, but we're building an airport and we're going to build it within the rules.

It's a tremendous economic tool for our city, and in fact, we couldn't support that growth without it. It goes to building roads and sewers and water lines and power lines, and it's part of our strategy, so we've got to go by the rules but we're going to build an airport.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, the reason I asked the question -- did you want to also talk?

MR. NICHOLS: I didn't want to interrupt you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, I asked the question because in the role that we play, we have to not only tolerate those who disagree with us but we actually -- a Texan who pays taxes -- well, I guess any Texan, Texans have the right to be heard, and not only do they have the right to be heard but they have the right to be listened to. We have dissidents to our toll program, we have dissenters from the Trans-Texas Corridor. We are not perfect individuals, we have to make subjective decisions based on objective analyses. And I would urge you, as I remind myself everyday, a Texan who disagrees with you is a Texan first and they're entitled to be heard and to be thought about, and those folks that are concerned about the McKinney Airport are entitled to be heard.

MR. HUFF: Absolutely. We've had the most inclusive master plan; we've had 50 people from not only McKinney but the surrounding communities, and Ms. Kaminsky who spoke -- and I was here at that -- and a lot of her supporters were involved in this and at meetings and so forth and were involved in this, and we continue to do this. I'm on the city council there and I get the heat, both sides of that issue, but we've got to go by the rules and we have to make decisions, so we do it in the best interest of our community but we'll listen to everybody -- we must.

MR. NICHOLS: I was just going to thank you for your willingness to serve on this committee.

MR. HUFF: Well, I appreciate the opportunity and I'll do my very best.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We know you will; good to have you aboard here in a few minutes.

MR. JOHNSON: I had one other observation.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, Mr. Johnson has changed his mind.

MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Huff brought up and I think it's important to note and it really bears emphasizing, these smaller airports like this are really economic engines for communities like McKinney and I think they provide a wonderful service. And I think as you mentioned, clearly there are to most issues two sides and differing viewpoints, and we have to sit down and listen to those and make determinations, use our best judgment. But I think this is a prime example of a benefit to the community and not everybody endorses that it's 100 percent beneficial, but the most part, I think people would agree with that.

MR. HUFF: Let me just give one small example. Texas Instruments moved their corporate fleet to McKinney four or five years ago. They fly nonstop McKinney-Tokyo often because they have lots of business over there. The tax value on those planes is more than a 15-story building in McKinney, Texas. And they don't send kids to schools, they don't require roads, they don't require hospitals, it's tremendously clean; we call it economic development and we're trying to lure people outside Texas to McKinney, we're working very hard at it, but it is a major engine and it really does benefit the whole community.

There may be a slight increase but we approved a Wal-Mart in another part of town, and those people complained to us, but the economic value of the Wal-Mart was like $5 million a year. And I keep telling everybody has their cross to bear but we have to build a community so we have to make compromises but we have to do what's best for the whole community.

MR. NICHOLS: So you're saying the property value of those airplanes is actually on the tax rolls?

MR. HUFF: Yes, sir. That's the name of the game, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: Well, I understand that, but there are actually some counties that treat it differently.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Are you going to call your county here in just a few minutes?

(General laughter.)

MR. NICHOLS: No. It's just interesting.

MR. HUFF: The rule is if it's used for business, if you are reimbursed business expenses, then it's a taxable asset; if it's not, if it's personal transportation, then it's not a taxable asset.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes, we're calling Cherokee County at one o'clock.

MR. HUFF: Sorry, Mr. Nichols.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Other comments for this gentleman?

MR. HOUGHTON: Just congratulations.

MR. HUFF: Thank you very much.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you very much for your willingness to serve also.

MR. HUFF: Not a problem.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Knowles. Usually I let the other commissioners comment but I've just got to ask you: Why in the world would you think a recommendation from Bascom Bentley and Cliff Johnson would be --

(General laughter.)

MR. KNOWLES: Oh, my goodness. What a small world.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Bascom calls me and says this is a really good guy, you need to reappoint him. I'm thinking well, why is he trying to help him, this is hurting.

MR. KNOWLES: You know, I've not seem him at the airport lately either.

MR. WILLIAMSON: He's too busy at his courthouse throwing people in jail, and then my roommate comes home and says, You know, this Bill Knowles, he needs to be reappointed. This guy has got two strikes against him.

(General laughter.)

MR. KNOWLES: Well, notwithstanding that, Mr. Chairman, members, thank you very much for giving me a chance to speak. I just wanted to emphasize that with over 40 years of aviation involvement as a pilot and as a mechanic, I'm obviously passionately involved with aviation, but as a banker, I have to echo what Mr. Huff says, really my major interest is seeing Texas improve through the economic development aspects of airports, particularly in small areas like Cherokee County or Palestine or the equivalent, because it is true, they're our lifeblood with the outside world in many ways for attracting business.

That having been said, I have had the privilege of serving under the Texas Aeronautics Commission as a commissioner and then transitioning over to TxDOT, and it's been a wonderful change. I applaud TxDOT for its support of aviation in Texas, and most importantly, for supporting the Aviation Section of TxDOT.

With the quality of people we have there, aviation is obviously on the upswing in Texas, and I can say from a personal standpoint just the items that have come about in the past seven or eight years, such as terminal building, the so-called RAMP Program which is part of TxDOT's improvement of small airports have been very, very progressive and that really, I guess, in a long way of saying is why I'd like to remain part of this committee to see it continue over the next three years.

So I really appreciate your considering me, notwithstanding Bascom Bentley. I'll tell him that, though.

(General laughter.)

MR. KNOWLES: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Commissioners? Mr. Johnson?

MR. JOHNSON: I have one, and I want you to know that I was put up to asking this question here and absolutely disavow any interest in the answer, and the question is what was the score of the Jacksonville-Palestine football game?

MR. KNOWLES: Thank you, Robert. You should have asked it. Bad news.

(General laughter.)

MR. HOUGHTON: They tax planes in Palestine like they do in McKinney?

MR. KNOWLES: The same situation as McKinney. We would love to have Texas Instruments; maybe we can make them an even better deal. Palestine Intergalactic Airport.

MR. NICHOLS: You have served on aviation in Texas a long time, and during that period I know that a lot of things happen because people help make them happen, and we very much appreciate the input and leadership you've shown on the advisory board for a long time. Thank you very much.

MR. KNOWLES: Thank you very much.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Does Bob McFarland have a plane?

MR. KNOWLES: Bob doesn't; he'd like to.

MR. WILLIAMSON: He has everything else, I figured he have a plane.

MR. KNOWLES: He taps me when he wants to go somewhere.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We appreciate you serving. Tell the judge we all say hello.

MR. KNOWLES: Thank you very much. I appreciate the chance to be here.

MR. FULTON: With that, commissioners, I would recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Members, do I have a motion?

MR. HOUGHTON: So moved.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Do I have a second?

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor will signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: All opposed, no.

(No response.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: Motion carries. Thank you, Dave.

MR. BEHRENS: Commissioners, we've covered agenda item number 5; we'll go to agenda item number 6 which is our proposed rules for this month. Our rules for proposed adoption, the first one being agenda item 6(a)(1) which will be rules concerning our Adopt-A-Highway Program, and Doris Howdeshell will present this.

MS. HOWDESHELL: Good morning, commissioners. Thanks for the opportunity to be here today. For the record, my name is Doris Howdeshell and I'm the director of the Travel Division who is responsible for administering the Adopt-A-Highway Program.

Today the proposals for amendments are to Section 2.61, 2.62, 2.63 and 2.68 concerning the public participation program which is the Adopt-A-Highway Program. I'd like to summarize the changes for you; they are relatively minimal.

The first one we are actually adding a definition for an Adopt-A-Highway coordinator and the term "vandalism" to the definitions portion of the rules. The changes in the rules will also allow an individual to adopt a stretch of highway in addition to a group. We will be requiring participants to agree to hold the department not responsible for any injuries or damages suffered during their participation in the program. We're also amending the rules to allow the submission of the application to the district Adopt-A-Highway coordinator instead of directly to the district engineer which should make the process and the paperwork easier.

We're requiring groups to give us a second contact person, and in the case of some of our university participants, we're asking for a faculty sponsor so that we'll be able to get in touch with those groups during the summer months. We're also adding some requirements where we have supervision for minor participants and individuals under the age of seven will not be able to participate in the program.

This was one of the most asked-about issues that our district Adopt-A-Highway coordinators shared with us, and of course, we're concerned about the safety of children so we have put some limitations on their participation. And we also amended the rules to include individuals not being able to have illegal drugs on them when they're picking up trash along the roadway.

The last few changes are we changed the wording to where the pickups will be spread out fairly evenly over